trail boss powder loads

[bigted]

so I am doing a test with some new to me bullets sent me by a friend. they are 185 grain .454 diameter bullets.

I began with what the manufacturer recommended in the first place to find a load;

measure the distance from the base of the bullet to the crimp groove [how much will be inside the case]... size and prime a case ... now take the powder and pour it in till it settles just under the line of where the bullet base will be resting upon seating the bullet ... now take this powder and pour it into the powder measure and weigh it ... this amount will be the MAX load.

sound rite so far?

so I took my case and arrived at 8.5 as a MAX load under my bullet ... I then loaded 5 at the 8.5 grain load ... then 5 at the 8 grain load ... then 5 at 7.5 grain load ... then 5 at 7 grains followed by 5 with 6.5 grains loads.

so this will be a ladder test for my 45Colt revolver with 7.5 inch barrel. trying to regulate my poi with my poa the bullet weight method.

so I think im on the rite track ... however ... I see that I am in excess of the books I have on hand. did the manufacturer recant on these first instructions for their powder?

[mike116]

The way I understand Trail Boss...   you can fill the case with as much as it will hold and not exceed the SAAMI recommended pressures for that load.    That's why Trail Boss says to measure the capacity of the case minus the bullet and fill it up to determine your max load.   
I have not loaded a lot of Trail Boss so don't take this as expert advise but it looks like you are following the manufacturers recommendations and are on the right path.  As far as I know these are the current instructions on the Hodgdon website.

I am going out to shoot some Trail Boss loads today.   7.5gr under a 250gr RNFP bullet.   I also have a bunch of BP loads to shoot.

[bigted]

https://www.hodgdon.com/PDF/Trail-Boss-Reduced-Loads%20R_P.pdf

I hope this came thru. it explains my reason for doing this ladder test with the loads I mentioned.

I have loads from 8.5 down in size by 5 grains looking for the best load in my 45. I have them loaded down from the 8.5 to 5.5 grains in the ladder test so more news at 11 so to speak.

[ssb73q]

The way I understand Trail Boss...   you can fill the case with as much as it will hold and not exceed the SAAMI recommended pressures for that load.    That's why Trail Boss says to measure the capacity of the case minus the bullet and fill it up to determine your max load.   
I have not loaded a lot of Trail Boss so don't take this as expert advise but it looks like you are following the manufacturers recommendations and are on the right path.  As far as I know these are the current instructions on the Hodgdon website.

I am going out to shoot some Trail Boss loads today.   7.5gr under a 250gr RNFP bullet.   I also have a bunch of BP loads to shoot.

Hi Mike, TrailBoss loads should never be started at maximum. TrailBoss recommends starting at 0.7 x maximum. Then examine the case after shooting to determine safety of the load, ie primer, gas blowby, etc.

I use 4.8gr TrailBoss with hard 250gr Laser Cast bullets for my .45 Colt loads. Those loads are accurate and easy on the gun and shooter.

Regards,
Richard

[mike116]

You are right Richard,   Hodgdon does recommend 70% of the max load to start with.   I was only referring to how bigted calculated his Max Load.  He followed recommendations and came up with 8.5gr.  Looks like he has also loaded lighter loads to begin with and will work up to a max load.
I should have mentioned that the trail boss load I was referring to (7.5gr with a 250gr RNFP) is for my 44-40 Lever action.  I did not shoot my Colt Richards Mason yesterday which I load at 6.5 grains with a 250gr RNFP.
 

[bigted]

went out and shot em yesterday. started with 5.5 grains followed with 6 grains and then the 6.5 grain loads. not so good in accuracy but the holes wound up a little low of poa. this is where I was heading with these lite bullets and the trail boss. then I shot the 7 grain loads ... all came together with them and just a bit low and to the left for a 2.4 inch group.

shot the 7.5 grain loads and noticed the beginning of primer sign showing pressure. shot the 8 grain loads and the pressure signs got worse so I took the 8.5 grain loads home and pulled them.

those 7 grain loads show promise and I will play with em a bit but I want to try some 200 and 230 grain bullets first to see if I can get then up to point of aim or a inch or so above. my 260 grain bullets print 6 or 7 inch high so I was not excited about them ... I do know that the Colts usually did print this high for the center of belt buckle aiming that they promoted rather vigorously.

anyway ... progress and I certainly do enjoy the additions in this post. thanks fellers and keep em coming.

[Captainkirk]

Any updates, Bigted?

[bigted]

yes as a matter of fact there is ... LOL.

shot the Colt yesterday with some 6 grain loads under my 230 grain Lee bullets and they sure surprised me with an 1.5 inch group of 5 at 7 yards. this revolver [Colt] is just fun to shoot with any load I stuff into her. small leading but sure not anything to get excited about.

also had some 40 grain loads of cartridge powder under 200 grain and 230 grain bullets fresh cast and looks like the 200 grainers want to print to point of aim. had some 40 grain loads under the 230 grain Lee's as well and they print around 3 inch high ... would settle with these and may but those 200 grainers just slam into the 3.5 inch groups rite at point of aim.

camera still on the fritz so no photo's just yet. got the targets tho so when I get it goin I will show n tell.

those "60" grip frames really shine with the 40 grain blackpowder loads. don't know it anybody has tried them but they really make the Colts come alive ... very impressive indeed ... and to think that these loads were what came around in 1873 ... undergunned my ass!!!

[rdstrain49]

for load data why noy just go to the horses mouth.
http://www.imrpowder.com/data/handgun/trailboss.php

[mike116]

for load data why noy just go to the horses mouth.
http://www.imrpowder.com/data/handgun/trailboss.php

bigted did  state in the OP that he went by the manufacturers recommendations to find the max load.  I think he was just looking to be sure he had read it clearly and was in his words "on the right track"

[Captainkirk]

The big thing to remember on ANY loads is that you start light and work your way up the ladder...WATCHING THE FIREARM AND BRASS FOR SIGNS OF OVERPRESSURE. I can't stress this enough; max load in one gun might be completely different in another. The brass itself will give you ample warning if you take the time to read it; plenty of descriptions of overpressure are available in manufacturer's loading data and on the internet so I won't go into them now.

[mike116]

Good advice Capt.  Looks like that is exactly the approach bigted is using.

[Captainkirk]

Good advice Capt.  Looks like that is exactly the approach bigted is using.

I've used this approach with all my reloading and surprisingly enough, the cartridge that showed the signs of early overpressure was the .380ACP...as compared to my 7mm Mag and .45/70 smokeless max loads, which showed no signs at all all the way up at the top...the .45/70 being a 'nosebleed load'.

[bigted]

ahhh your are so correct with the 45-70's and the "nose bleed" capability. had a 458 win mag and that hummer is capable of more n a nose bleed ... but ... the 45-70 in my ruger #1 can get there in spades as well. try a 500 grain gubberment bullet ahead of a case full of IMR 3031 and { IN A RUGER ONLY }  they will make an elephant gun outta a simple little lite weight rifle.

have not gotten out again with the "trail boss" loading but I am confident that they will give me the load I am seeking with just a little coaxing and smaller ladder tests with 1/2 grain ladder and 1/4 grain loadings. don't think I will go smaller in the ladders as these will and should give me the shooting and hopefully the load optimum in my 7.5 inch Colt '73'

[StrawHat]

I used to load the 45-70 for several different rifles, from the "weak" Trapdoor to a Siamese Mauser I built.  The one thing I learned was as far as hunting loads went, the old blackpowder load, 405 grain bullet and a 60-70 grain powder charge, was enough to give full penetration on the game I shot.  So, why was I whacking myself half to death with "Magnum" loads?  Since the light went on, I have stuck to blackpowder and been happy.

In the 45 Colt, I cast 3 or 4 different bullets but they all go over a full charge of black powder and again, give complete penetration on game animals, mostly the Ohio Whitetailed deer.  My bullets are fairly soft, the alloy is usually 30/1.

Kevin