44 Colt

[AntiqueSledMan]

Hey Guys, question about your 44 Colts.
Are they shooting the .429" bullets or the Original .451"?
If original, where did you get your cylinders?
I've been looking into this but can't find anyone offering a gated conversion other than 45 Schofield/45 Colt.

Thanks, AntiqueSledMan.

[45 Dragoon]

You'd have to ream a 44 cyl.  (If you couldn't find one of course).  I tuned a RM '60 for a customer that had both cylinders.

Mike
www.goonsgunworks.com
Follow me on Instagram @ goonsgunworks

[Hawg]

That's because the .44 cap and ball are actually .45's by modern measurements. If you were to convert one to .44 you'd have to use hollow based bullets or have the barrel relined.

[AntiqueSledMan]

I load 44 Colt Original for my 1858 Remington with a Howell's Cylinder. Heeled base bullets are easy to load.
Thinking I'd like to get an 1851 or 1860 & convert to 44 Colt Original. I know the cylinders can't be used because
the ratchet gets to small and the hand would need replacing. Just wondered what everyone else did.

AntiqueSledMan

[AntiqueSledMan]

Scooby,

The diameter would okay, Uberti also made the 1858 Conversion Cylinder & Frame larger then the Cap & Ball. Probably so you couldn't go purchase a cartridge cylinder & install it on your Cap & Ball Revolver, (liability & lawyers). If the 45 Schofield/Colt fits so will a 44 Colt, it's smaller. The issue is the ratchet. Original 1851 & 1860's had the teeth centered on the chambers, the factory conversion moved the teeth to between the chambers, requiring a 2 stage hand to index the ratchet a little further to line up the chamber with bore. Are your ratchet teeth centered on the Chamber or set between them? This could also be the reason they made them larger, no longer requiring a two stage hand. I know there are guys out there who have them, I just wonder where they came from. Probably custom builds beyond my budget, still fun to dream.

[Mad Dog Stafford]

I don't have any guns in .44 Colt. So, I'm no help on this. 

[AntiqueSledMan]

Scooby,

By no means am I an expert. I just really enjoy history. Looking through my books I'm thinking maybe you mean the Thuer Conversion. I believe these still had the ratchet centered on the chamber. But as soon as they bored through the cylinder they discovered that the ratchet teeth needed to be moved, and placing them between the chambers was the only place to relocate them. As far as the Richards Conversion, the 44's needed new cylinders & two stage hands. The Type One Conversions had a firing pin and sight mounted on the Conversion Ring. The Type Two Conversion had a firing pin added to the hammer. Of course as I'm paging through the book I see an 1851 Navy with the Type Two Richards-Mason Conversion with teeth located between the chambers. I just have to laugh at old Sam Colt for thinking nobody would want to use Cartridges.

[45 Dragoon]

The Richards improvement used a single fingered hand that had a movable (jointed) top section to scoot the ratchet on over. Very ingenious. The 2  fingered ones of today are a modern fix as is a larger cylinder that will accommodate six .45 C rounds instead of 5. I think the 2 fingered hand appeared with the '73 Mod P. since it has such a small base pin with a much reduced ratchet.

Mike
www.goonsgunworks.com
Follow me on Instagram @ goonsgunworks

[AntiqueSledMan]

I finally found my pictures of the Original 1860 Conversion Cylinder.
As you can see, the ratchets are relocated between chambers, and
The bores are straight through, (no throat) for healed bullets.
I don’t have any decent pictures of the Kirst Cylinder, so
A Howell 1851 Cylinder with a 44 Mag set in it, and my
Howell 1858 with 6–44 Colt Cartridges. The Rims are almost touching.
This is why they can’t use 6-45 Colts in a Colt Cylinder, the rims would overlap.
But if they can use 5-45 Schofield’s, they could also use 5-44 Colts.
There must not be enough demand for anyone to mess with it.

[Hawg]

my
Howell 1858 with 6–44 Colt Cartridges. The Rims are almost touching.
This is why they can’t use 6-45 Colts in a Colt Cylinder, the rims would overlap.

I'm thinking it's a chamber wall thickness problem. Somebody made a six shot .45 Colt cylinder but the chambers were angled slightly.

[AntiqueSledMan]

Scooby,

Probably my best is Metallic Cartridge Conversions, by Dennis Adler.
But I think I learned more on the forums by listening to what Hoof Hearted
had to say in some of his conversations, tough to beat experience.
Also a guy named Mako did some very nice graphic examples,
but he put a copy write on them so I felt I shouldn’t republish.


Hawg,

That was Ken Howell (R&D). But they sold the patent to Taylor’s & Co.
Also I believe that was only on the 1858 model.

Check out this link, http://www.sixguns.com/BookOfThe44/bot44c01.htm
Chapter 4 shows the 44 Conversion, the whole book is there.
Also, http://www.8sgarage.com/Armory/Pistol/Data/Manuals/A%20Study%20of%20Colt%20Conversions%20and%20Other%20Percussion%20Revolvers%20-%20R.%20McDowell.pdf

[StrawHat]

I happen to have two of the ASM versions of the Richards Conversion Model, both chambered for the modernized 44 Colt.  If you would like any measurements or other photos, let me know.

I have not yet gotten around to fitting new grips on these.

Kevin

[Hawg]

sh.


Hawg,

That was Ken Howell (R&D). But they sold the patent to Taylor’s & Co.
Also I believe that was only on the 1858 model.

Check out this link, http://www.sixguns.com/BookOfThe44/bot44c01.htm
Chapter 4 shows the 44 Conversion, the whole book is there.
Also, http://www.8sgarage.com/Armory/Pistol/Data/Manuals/A%20Study%20of%20Colt%20Conversions%20and%20Other%20Percussion%20Revolvers%20-%20R.%20McDowell.pdf

OK thanks. I was thinking it was Colt too. Guess I'm out of my league on conversions.