power of the 1860

[bigted]

  ... well i took my newest "60" out [a pietta] and took a can of Ensford 3F powder with me. i had done a little thinning on the front sight and wanted to see where the best sight picture would be.

now i had never used the 3F Ensford before and along with this i had only the vegi shortening along for ball lube. this revolver has plagued me with stiff action after 2 cylinder full's and i had been puttering with it and figured the Old E would help me in this dept.

 so after loading up with the 35 grains i normally do with the 2Fg GOEX i plastered the cyl front with shortening and capped it up to find out how she would do with the Old E.

after shooting a cyl full i thought to myself ... wowww that thing really came to life ... dont remember it acting so full of energy before.  so reloading and dropping back to 30 grains i cut loose again with almost equal energy and while it did not hurt my hand nor wrist ... i could really tell the difference.

she bound up again after the two cyl full shooting and in frustration i dismantled it and cleaned it good and after drying it good and apply some grease ... i re assembled it for a couple more cyl full's sure nough it shot with plenty of energy again and also began to act like a red headed step child after the two cyl full's.

so i think i have the binding figured out and will address it but will report on another thread with the results of this.

just wanted to know if others have noticed a super gain in energy between the plain ol GOEX 2Fg and the 3F Old E powder? i was and am greatly impressed with the better by far energy from the newer powder ... any thoughts?

[Captainkirk]

Never fired OE...only Pyro P and Goex.

[Hawg]

i plastered the cyl front with shortening

All you're doing like that is making a mess. A little around the edge of the balls is all you need. Pack the chambers full and you just blow it all over the gun. Better yet use lubed wads under the balls.

[ssb73q]

Hi bigted, Olde Eynsford is as powerful as Swiss BP. While tested in an 1858, you should see similar results from your 1860. Check out this thread:
http://blackpowdersmoke.com/colt/index.php?topic=1356.0

Regards,
Richard

[bigted]

that is indeed interesting as is the compression discussion. i was not dreaming then with the energy produced with the Ol E 3F powder in comparison with regular 2Fg GOEX powder.

as for the grease in front of the balls ... yes it can be messy but i really like the cleanup after using it. i have tryed the wads and they work but do not shut down the grease in front ... now i have not tryed the vegi wad [.030] under the lubed felt wad but cant imagine it doing a bunch better ... worth a try tho.

upon advise from another member i have tryed just powder and ball with no wads nor grease and to be honest i cant remember how it went so guess i will need to retry it again. i do remember that each cylinder full i fired i blew down the barrel three breaths for each chamber and it seemed to retain accuracy as i remember.

got to get better nipples before testing any further tho. these spew fouling everywhere including the hammer in enough amounts that it clogs the hammer sides enough that the sticking gets very tiresome very quickly. i blame these cheap nipples that come on the Pietta but ... i will suffer along and not snivel on Pietta as these revolvers are some kinda great ... especially the sale ones.

JUST SUPER REVOLVERS. very fun to shoot and with the Ol E powder it is no wonder that a fairly large aminal or human would be very sick after receiving a "ball to the lights".

[Hawg]

got to get better nipples before testing any further tho. these spew fouling everywhere including the hammer in enough amounts that it clogs the hammer sides enough that the sticking gets very tiresome very quickly. i blame these cheap nipples that come on the Pietta

Don't understand that. All I use is stock nipples. ???

[G Dog]

3F Goex may have been a better comparison since you were using 3F OE.  I would expect 2F to burn slower and to be less hot.  OE like Swiss is pretty energetic stuff.  Goex is ‘so so’.  Good testing though. 

Caps don’t usually create enough fowling to impede the hammer.  I have never seen that occur.  The stock Pietta cones in use here (for decades) work real well.

If I am out of lube a couple drops of olive oil over the ball works pretty well. 

Are M1860's a hoot or what?  I love those things.

[Dellbert]

Are M1860's a hoot or what?  I love those things.

Enough that I been looking to buy another one. I also think the stock nipples are good enough to leave alone. I've never wore any of them out, never dry fire them and there shouldn't be any problem with them. I found second hand revolver's in the LGS that was dry fired so much that #11 caps would be a tight fit, and the print was left on the face of the hammer.

[LonesomePigeon]

I have compared 15 grains of Goex 2F to 15 grains of Schuetzen 3F in an Uberti 1851 Navy .36 and the 3F definitely feels more powerful and the impact point is a bit higher.

[soundguy]

It might simply be better ignition based on grain size and compaction, surface area contact, etc.

[ssb73q]

I have compared 15 grains of Goex 2F to 15 grains of Schuetzen 3F in an Uberti 1851 Navy .36 and the 3F definitely feels more powerful and the impact point is a bit higher.

Hi Lonesome, the higher the muzzle velocity of the projectile, the lower the impact point, all else being equal. IMO any caliber equal or less than .45 should use 3f.

Felt recoil and impact points can be deceiving, a chronograph is required to really know what's going on.

Regards,
Richard

[ssb73q]

Hi, not very scientific, but you may find this interesting:



Regards,
Richard

[LonesomePigeon]

"Hi Lonesome, the higher the muzzle velocity of the projectile, the lower the impact point, all else being equal."

Could it be due to the recoil being virtually zero with the 2F? There's not much recoil with just 15 grains of 3F but it is a bit more than with the same amount of 2F. 

[Hawg]

There is always going to be recoil, no matter how slight. The faster a bullet exits the muzzle the lower the impact point. Take two bullets, one heavier than the other and use the same powder charge. The heavy bullet is always going to hit higher because it takes more energy to get it going and it stays in the barrel longer.

[ssb73q]

Hi Lonesome, as a general rule, 3f will produce higher velocities than the 2f in a revolver length barrel for the same charge weight. However, 2f in a rifle barrel usually produces higher velocities than the rifle with 3f for the same charge weight. 3f burns faster than 2f for most powders.

However, there is really little significance using either 2f or 3f powder granulation in a revolver. I regularly use for my revolvers the BP sub Black Mz that only comes in one granulation, 2f. If I ever need higher velocities, I will use 3f Swiss, or Olde Eynsford BP.

Regards,
Richard