1860 teardown

[oldfart]

So i stripped it yesterday, after shooting,
this morning i was looking around, for fit and finish,

the spring on the hand was put in crooked, so i straightened it out, there is no tension to it when its inside the slot, ? how much tension?

when pulling back the hammer the Hand goes down, felt a rub/catch, looked and the shoulder stock screw hole was never smoothed down from the drilling and tapping,
and also the screw end is proud to the hole, catching the bottom of the hand as it comes down the slot,
some tinkering here for sure,

trigger guard to frame fit was perfect, that made me happy as my other two the R1885 and the 1851 were off-set a tad,

the grip when i grabbed it with a damp palm as i was cleaning it in the sink after firing, gave me a red-stained hand, nasty dye,
soaked a lot of it out with some acitone and I'm now giving it coats of True-oil

more to come

[Captainkirk]

Yes, many of the replicas you buy today are nothing but assembled projects. It's the added attention to detail that makes them treasures.

[45 Dragoon]

The hand spring should have enough tension to keep "throw-by" (cyl over rotation) at bay when cocking "with force". It's job is not only to rotate the cyl. (carry up), but to slow down the cyl and aid the bolt in lockup. One of the early signs of a weak or broken hand spring is sudden appearance of throw-by.  An almost freewheeling cylinder is cool in the movies but sucks when you want your revolver to fire every time you pull the trigger. This is assuming that the timing is perfect, meaning the bolt drops one bolt width before the locking notch ( or at least in the "approach" (the lead as some call it)).
 More than likely, you're going to find the bolt dropping on the edge of the locking notch (late drop) and it will degrade the edge of the notch if left this way.  The bolt spring will have too much tension on the bolt (you only need about 3 lbs. (4 lbs.max).  The left bolt arm will be much too thick and should be thinned to at least half its thickness and you should round the 90deg. cut, where that arm meetes the body of the bolt, to spread the stress from flexing and prolong its life. The cam height can be reduced which will reduce the amount of flexing the bolt arm has to do which will increase its life as well as help ignition reliability by freeing up a lot of force not needed to get the cam past the bolt arm.
  The right top corner of the trigger (sear) can be slightly rounded to keep any interaction between the trigger and the bolt arm.
  Oh yes, since yours has the 4th screw, you can shorten that screw, shorten both screws (so you don't have to remember which one goes where. Lol) or, chamfer the bottom of the hand to the point that it can't interfere with the screw or the proud area around the screw hole (when descending / at rest. The hand raises as you cycle the action, not falls).

There's a few things that will help your Pietta run better/last longer.

Mike
www.goonsgunworks.com
Follow me on Instagram @ goonsgunworks

[99whip]

As the good Capt and Mike allude too, when you really start looking "closely" at these guns you will find all kinds of things that need some attention.  Personally, I think learning all that adds to the enjoyment of owning and shooting them. 

Whip

[oldfart]

Sir, (Mike)
THANK YOU very good info and I love tinkering so your wisdom gives me more things to learn how to do,

could you post a picture of what you do to the spring? the Cam? and Trigger sear?
as pictures would  fill in the words you've written, and I've always been a crayon type personality,
I think, i get what your saying, but don't want to do it until i see it, then it leaks into my thick noggin and i can do it,

again
thank you very very much, for sharing

John

The hand spring should have enough tension to keep "throw-by" (cyl over rotation) at bay when cocking "with force". It's job is not only to rotate the cyl. (carry up), but to slow down the cyl and aid the bolt in lockup. One of the early signs of a weak or broken hand spring is sudden appearance of throw-by.  An almost freewheeling cylinder is cool in the movies but sucks when you want your revolver to fire every time you pull the trigger. This is assuming that the timing is perfect, meaning the bolt drops one bolt width before the locking notch ( or at least in the "approach" (the lead as some call it)).
 More than likely, you're going to find the bolt dropping on the edge of the locking notch (late drop) and it will degrade the edge of the notch if left this way.  The bolt spring will have too much tension on the bolt (you only need about 3 lbs. (4 lbs.max).  The left bolt arm will be much too thick and should be thinned to at least half its thickness and you should round the 90deg. cut, where that arm meetes the body of the bolt, to spread the stress from flexing and prolong its life. The cam height can be reduced which will reduce the amount of flexing the bolt arm has to do which will increase its life as well as help ignition reliability by freeing up a lot of force not needed to get the cam past the bolt arm.
  The right top corner of the trigger (sear) can be slightly rounded to keep any interaction between the trigger and the bolt arm.
  Oh yes, since yours has the 4th screw, you can shorten that screw, shorten both screws (so you don't have to remember which one goes where. Lol) or, chamfer the bottom of the hand to the point that it can't interfere with the screw or the proud area around the screw hole (when descending / at rest. The hand raises as you cycle the action, not falls).

There's a few things that will help your Pietta run better/last longer.

Mike
www.goonsgunworks.com
Follow me on Instagram @ goonsgunworks

[oldfart]

I took my jewlers files to the screw threads, and got it all flush,
then broke the edges of the hammer slightly, smoothed out the inside of the hammer channel on the frame , touched it up with bluing,
polished the Hand and straighten out the spring, put a little more tension on the spring, for the channel,

polished it all with 600 grit and oil, it now cocks very smoothly and when fired --slowly letting the hammer down, theres no rubbing or binding,

my main spring didn't want to slide sideways off the roller, so i filed down the end a tad, so when the screw was loosened up it would slide sideways,

the grip got its second coat of true-oil,


now I'm wanting to do what Mike has suggested,
DANG I'm having FUN

I'm seriously thinking of buying one of Dixies kit dragoons or 51's  wish they had a baby dragoon kit,

always been addicted to building stuff,

thanks all for your help and advice

Cheers
John

[G Dog]

The hand spring should have enough tension ...   ...
Mike
www.goonsgunworks.com
Follow me on Instagram @ goonsgunworks

I keep a special file for 45 Dragoon posts like that.  There are no better nor more lucid explanations of internal lock work stuff than his.  Thanks Goon, keep em coming!

[mazo kid]

Here is a man (Mike) that makes a living by doing this work and he freely gives us advice on how to do it ourselves. Thank you very much!!

[45 Dragoon]

Thanks Mazo , G Dog,  I appreciate that. I feel if you aren't willing to help others with what you can, if you can, that reflects on your character. Character is what folks remember aboht you .  .  .  . 

Mike
www.goonsgunworks.com
Follow me on Instagram @ goonsgunworks

[Captainkirk]

Agreed, Scooby...and I will add that if you haven't worked the action on a Goon gun, you don't know what you're missing. And that's coming from someone who has done a lot of home tuning.

[45 Dragoon]

Scoob!  Cap!! Thank you guys a ton! You're way too kind!! Jim Martin is the reason  !  He told me what he could - Hows, whys, why nots,  don'ts,  even some nevers. He also said we're a dying breed and that there's more out there than we could ever fix! I think he's right so there's no real reason not to help those willing to do/try for themselves! 
  I also know there's pretty much nothing that hasn't been done before at sometime or another but doing those things is what will seem " new" to the crowd. For instance, bolt blocks and action stops. Been around forever. Bolt blocks are made individually for each  revolver from square stock but that's the best way to "fit" them (thickness, not length) properly. They are so important for the locking notches and impart so much accuracy to the action, to me- they're a must! Likewise,  an action stop is really nothing more than a set screw in the right place but what it does is so important for the life of the action parts, why wouldn't you put one in? These two things define a solid action and a dedicated length  to an action.
  I'm now weaving into my service more "modern" (1950's modern!!!! Thank you Bill!!) coil/torsion springs for true "life of the gun" longevity (Still not a fan of wires by the way).  Done right, the coils can be set up to feel exactly like the flats but last for ever!!! So, there's a future in making old (and new copies of) S.A.s last for liftimes .  .  .  .  but not if you don't know how .  .  .  . 

Thanks again guys, y'all make it possible for my relevance in this whole thing .  .  .  . 

Mike
www.goonsgunworks.com
Follow me on Instagram @ goonsgunworks

[sltm1]

Mike, I wholeheartly agree with Mazo and Scooby and everyone else that appreciates your wisdom dispensing!!!! GOOD ON YOU !!
I try to do the same when a question arises that I can answer. Your in-depth stuff is great info !!!

[ssb73q]

I'm seriously thinking of buying one of Dixies kit dragoons or 51's  wish they had a baby dragoon kit,

Hi John, I suggest that you may want to stay away from kit BP revolvers. While it is an interesting learning exercise about a revolver, the final kit cost will cost you MUCH more than a factory finished BP revolver. There are always plenty of things to improve on a factory supplied revolver that will teach you as much as a kit. I did the Walker kit and will never do a kit again, see thread starting here:
http://blackpowdersmoke.com/colt/index.php?topic=1412.msg15453#msg15453

Regards,
Richard

[Captainkirk]

I'm sort of in agreement with Richard; while my 60 Army kit gun came out better than anything I could have bought (Cimarron, etc) it cost MORE than a Cimarron to complete. Better to buy an already-built repro and spend your "tinker-time" working the action, fit and finish. There is so much time wasted simply shaping wood and rough brass and removing machine marks in white steel.