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Author Topic: At which hammer position do you check cylinder to barrel clearance?  (Read 5454 times)

Offline AR. Hillbilly

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Re: At which hammer position do you check cylinder to barrel clearance?
« Reply #15 on: October 15, 2021, 04:22:00 PM »
Ok I’m home. I went to the shop and got a feeler gauge. I believe it has 013 play. The 014 won’t go and 012 slides easily through.
I took it apart and it doesn’t look all beat like the one above in the pic.

That's a lot even by old standards. Goon could fix it for you but IMO it's not worth it for a brass frame. I'd just shoot it like it is. Just don't overload it. Keep charges at 20 grains or under.
Thank you. I wasn’t sure if it was safe.
I just noticed your avitar. 👍👍👍
Suppose I did want to fix it, how would I get in touch with that feller?

Offline Hawg

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Re: At which hammer position do you check cylinder to barrel clearance?
« Reply #16 on: October 15, 2021, 04:46:22 PM »
He may see this thread and chime in or email him goonsgunworks@gmail.com or go to his website and fill out an order form www.goonsgunworks.com
Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy and tasteth good with ketchup.

Offline Captainkirk

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Re: At which hammer position do you check cylinder to barrel clearance?
« Reply #17 on: October 15, 2021, 05:10:54 PM »
Three ways to fix it, AR. Way #1 is send it to the Goon. A decision you wouldn't regret by any means... L@J

Second two ways involve your confidence in your own work, and competence of same.

Way #2 involves fabricating a thin SS shim, preferably out of shim stock probably .010 to ride between the cylinder and recoil shield. You could "most likely" secure it to the present recoil shield wear ring via JB Weld or similar structural adhesive. I say "most likely" because I have never actually tried it...only cogitated on it. Bt it should work in theory. I believe the original Manhattan brass Colt clones used something of this nature...how you worked it out and how well it worked would be in your hands...

Way #3 involves removing the barrel and cylinder, then taking a pair of needle nosed vise grips and removing the alignment pins in the frame. A little judicious heat on the grip frame (hair dryer, heat gun, etc) and the pins should walk right out (they are press fit). Slip the barrel back on the arbor, apply valve grinding compound to the two mating surfaces, then work them back and forth. The two surfaces will lap each other parallel and square, and the soft brass will be the sacrificial part to wear, allowing the forcing cone to move closer to the cylinder. All you need to lap is again around .010. You can check your work every couple of minutes. Just don't get any lapping compound in the innards of the gun!
After you get the gap where you want it, clean out the pin holes on both frame and barrel, tap the pins back in, and reassemble. You should be good to go.

Whichever method you choose, good luck! And it would be great if you could snap some pix if using method #2 or#3 and share in the "Gunsmithing" section. You're not the first to need this done and certainly won't be the last!

"You gonna pull those pistols, or whistle Dixie?"

Offline Hawg

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Re: At which hammer position do you check cylinder to barrel clearance?
« Reply #18 on: October 15, 2021, 05:15:29 PM »
Way #2 involves fabricating a thin SS shim, preferably out of shim stock probably .010 to ride between the cylinder and recoil shield. You could "most likely" secure it to the present recoil shield wear ring via JB Weld or similar structural adhesive. I say "most likely" because I have never actually tried it...only cogitated on it. Bt it should work in theory. I believe the original Manhattan brass Colt clones used something of this nature...how you worked it out and how well it worked would be in your hands...

This is also a good fix for a frame that's started to imprint the cylinder ratchet. It won't stop the arbor from pulling out with heavy loads tho.
Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy and tasteth good with ketchup.

Offline Captainkirk

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Re: At which hammer position do you check cylinder to barrel clearance?
« Reply #19 on: October 15, 2021, 05:22:40 PM »
This is also a good fix for a frame that's started to imprint the cylinder ratchet. It won't stop the arbor from pulling out with heavy loads tho.

Yup. Once those brass threads stretch there is no fixing them unless you might possibly find a helicoil that size. Good luck with that.
"You gonna pull those pistols, or whistle Dixie?"

Offline AR. Hillbilly

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Re: At which hammer position do you check cylinder to barrel clearance?
« Reply #20 on: October 16, 2021, 04:10:07 AM »
Three ways to fix it, AR. Way #1 is send it to the Goon. A decision you wouldn't regret by any means... L@J

Second two ways involve your confidence in your own work, and competence of same.

Way #2 involves fabricating a thin SS shim, preferably out of shim stock probably .010 to ride between the cylinder and recoil shield. You could "most likely" secure it to the present recoil shield wear ring via JB Weld or similar structural adhesive. I say "most likely" because I have never actually tried it...only cogitated on it. Bt it should work in theory. I believe the original Manhattan brass Colt clones used something of this nature...how you worked it out and how well it worked would be in your hands...

Way #3 involves removing the barrel and cylinder, then taking a pair of needle nosed vise grips and removing the alignment pins in the frame. A little judicious heat on the grip frame (hair dryer, heat gun, etc) and the pins should walk right out (they are press fit). Slip the barrel back on the arbor, apply valve grinding compound to the two mating surfaces, then work them back and forth. The two surfaces will lap each other parallel and square, and the soft brass will be the sacrificial part to wear, allowing the forcing cone to move closer to the cylinder. All you need to lap is again around .010. You can check your work every couple of minutes. Just don't get any lapping compound in the innards of the gun!
After you get the gap where you want it, clean out the pin holes on both frame and barrel, tap the pins back in, and reassemble. You should be good to go.

Whichever method you choose, good luck! And it would be great if you could snap some pix if using method #2 or#3 and share in the "Gunsmithing" section. You're not the first to need this done and certainly won't be the last!
I’m rolling idea number 3 around.  I believe I could pull that off but wouldn’t the Arbor need shortened as well? I feel like the wedge on this isn’t actually a wedge but just a keeper. It’s not wedge shaped and a spring clip holds it in place.

Offline Hawg

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Re: At which hammer position do you check cylinder to barrel clearance?
« Reply #21 on: October 16, 2021, 04:49:45 AM »
You can file out the opening for the wedge and shim the front of it. You're only going .010 or so. You may need to take the same amount off of the front of the arbor. The arbor should bottom out in the hole to make a solid fit. If the arbor is already too short you will need to shim it until it is a solid fit. Uberti's all have short arbors. Pietta's are usually the correct length. If you can drive the wedge in until it locks up the cylinder then the arbor is too short. The wedge spring doesn't hold it in place. All it is for is to catch the head of the wedge screw when you remove the barrel to help keep the wedge from coming all the way out. The wedge should be tapped in as far as it will go. If everything is set up right it will be a solid fit and you will have to tap the wedge back out to remove it.
Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy and tasteth good with ketchup.

Offline AR. Hillbilly

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Re: At which hammer position do you check cylinder to barrel clearance?
« Reply #22 on: October 16, 2021, 06:05:45 AM »
You can file out the opening for the wedge and shim the front of it. You're only going .010 or so. You may need to take the same amount off of the front of the arbor. The arbor should bottom out in the hole to make a solid fit. If the arbor is already too short you will need to shim it until it is a solid fit. Uberti's all have short arbors. Pietta's are usually the correct length. If you can drive the wedge in until it locks up the cylinder then the arbor is too short. The wedge spring doesn't hold it in place. All it is for is to catch the head of the wedge screw when you remove the barrel to help keep the wedge from coming all the way out. The wedge should be tapped in as far as it will go. If everything is set up right it will be a solid fit and you will have to tap the wedge back out to remove it.
Thank you that’s very good information.
I was looking at the frame this morning. Wondering if I could Chuck the end of the arbor in my lathe and mill it  that way. I fear it would be way too out of balance even with the grips removed.
I also looked at the barrel and wondered if it could all be milled off the back?
I do like the shim the wedge idea.
Also still thinking on the shim idea. I believe this is the actual problem area. A hard shim would stop the ratchet teeth from embedding the brass.
I think I’d rather save up for a steel Navy rather than spend much on this.
A proper 36 steel would make me happier.


Offline Captainkirk

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Re: At which hammer position do you check cylinder to barrel clearance?
« Reply #23 on: October 16, 2021, 04:40:18 PM »
You can file out the opening for the wedge and shim the front of it. You're only going .010 or so. You may need to take the same amount off of the front of the arbor. The arbor should bottom out in the hole to make a solid fit. If the arbor is already too short you will need to shim it until it is a solid fit. Uberti's all have short arbors. Pietta's are usually the correct length. If you can drive the wedge in until it locks up the cylinder then the arbor is too short. The wedge spring doesn't hold it in place. All it is for is to catch the head of the wedge screw when you remove the barrel to help keep the wedge from coming all the way out. The wedge should be tapped in as far as it will go. If everything is set up right it will be a solid fit and you will have to tap the wedge back out to remove it.
Thank you that’s very good information.
I was looking at the frame this morning. Wondering if I could Chuck the end of the arbor in my lathe and mill it  that way. I fear it would be way too out of balance even with the grips removed.
I also looked at the barrel and wondered if it could all be milled off the back?
I do like the shim the wedge idea.
Also still thinking on the shim idea. I believe this is the actual problem area. A hard shim would stop the ratchet teeth from embedding the brass.
I think I’d rather save up for a steel Navy rather than spend much on this.
A proper 36 steel would make me happier.

Suggestion; sell your brasser as-is. Put the money towards a steel frame Navy.
"You gonna pull those pistols, or whistle Dixie?"

Offline Hawg

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Re: At which hammer position do you check cylinder to barrel clearance?
« Reply #24 on: October 16, 2021, 05:00:01 PM »
You can file out the opening for the wedge and shim the front of it. You're only going .010 or so. You may need to take the same amount off of the front of the arbor. The arbor should bottom out in the hole to make a solid fit. If the arbor is already too short you will need to shim it until it is a solid fit. Uberti's all have short arbors. Pietta's are usually the correct length. If you can drive the wedge in until it locks up the cylinder then the arbor is too short. The wedge spring doesn't hold it in place. All it is for is to catch the head of the wedge screw when you remove the barrel to help keep the wedge from coming all the way out. The wedge should be tapped in as far as it will go. If everything is set up right it will be a solid fit and you will have to tap the wedge back out to remove it.
Thank you that’s very good information.
I was looking at the frame this morning. Wondering if I could Chuck the end of the arbor in my lathe and mill it  that way. I fear it would be way too out of balance even with the grips removed.
I also looked at the barrel and wondered if it could all be milled off the back?
I do like the shim the wedge idea.
Also still thinking on the shim idea. I believe this is the actual problem area. A hard shim would stop the ratchet teeth from embedding the brass.
I think I’d rather save up for a steel Navy rather than spend much on this.
A proper 36 steel would make me happier.

Suggestion; sell your brasser as-is. Put the money towards a steel frame Navy.

Or part it out on ebay.
Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy and tasteth good with ketchup.

Offline 45 Dragoon

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Re: At which hammer position do you check cylinder to barrel clearance?
« Reply #25 on: November 06, 2021, 08:53:52 AM »
Holy cow!! Been mia!!!
AR, got your email finally,  it went to spam for some reason. I'll send you a message.

Mike

Offline G Dog

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Re: At which hammer position do you check cylinder to barrel clearance?
« Reply #26 on: November 06, 2021, 02:43:33 PM »
What's the date code on that? 

Working on the piece may be half the fun, for some.  It appears AR has his own tools and gear.  From the perspective of a non-shop guy, I'd keep it, shoot it, enjoy it and get a steel frame.  Also, think historically.
"Tolerance is the last virtue of a dying society."
                                                   --   Aristotle

Offline AR. Hillbilly

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Re: At which hammer position do you check cylinder to barrel clearance?
« Reply #27 on: November 12, 2021, 03:10:23 AM »
What's the date code on that? 

Working on the piece may be half the fun, for some.  It appears AR has his own tools and gear.  From the perspective of a non-shop guy, I'd keep it, shoot it, enjoy it and get a steel frame.  Also, think historically.
In thinking the same. I’ve took a liking to it and it’s seems quite accurate.
I believe it was made in 1994. It has a little more barrel to cylinder clearance than is safe.

Offline AR. Hillbilly

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Re: At which hammer position do you check cylinder to barrel clearance?
« Reply #28 on: November 12, 2021, 03:17:03 AM »
Holy cow!! Been mia!!!
AR, got your email finally,  it went to spam for some reason. I'll send you a message.

Mike
No worries. I’ve gotten sidetracked at work and haven’t messed with it for a spell.
I really like it but it has a 014 cylinder gap.
I want to keep it and buy another with a steel frame.

Offline Shootemup

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Re: At which hammer position do you check cylinder to barrel clearance?
« Reply #29 on: November 12, 2021, 03:24:08 AM »
What's the date code on that? 

Working on the piece may be half the fun, for some.  It appears AR has his own tools and gear.  From the perspective of a non-shop guy, I'd keep it, shoot it, enjoy it and get a steel frame.  Also, think historically.
In thinking the same. I’ve took a liking to it and it’s seems quite accurate.
I believe it was made in 1994. It has a little more barrel to cylinder clearance than is safe.

I'm  with G Dog I would work on it  experience is knowledge