The Chassepot Mle 1866

[Racing]

Guys.
Might as well grab a cold snack and a chair, cause this is gonna get long... 



The French made Chassepot. Aka Mle 1866. Aka "the worlds first modern rifle".
In short a needle fire bolt action that uses a rubber "gasket" to obturate to seal off the chamber. Intended for a paper cartridge containing it all to go boom.

Seeing its advent as accepted for service in 1866.... Mr Whitworths groups findings in Britain in the late 1850´s were of course put to good use, albeit with a French twist. Of course.

So. The Chassepot is a 45 caliber rifle alright and with a 1:21" twist rendering it SHOULD be capable of modern day performance, for a 45 that is. But.. as the story came to unfold it´s not that simple. Isn´t it always.. 



Seeing this is dubbed "the worlds first modern rifle" it´d be asking a tad much that dear Alphonse Chassepot got it all correct on the first try. True is that many many many rifles and their iterations in turn saw light before arriving on the Chassepot, but that being said the gun carries one major Achilles heel.
It´s chamber.
The original cartridges for it are a damn maze to make. Incl such trix as silk webbing and what not but, and is a MAJOR but, to this day it is also the worlds first caseless ammo rifle - in practice.

It works as such that as the cartridge goes boom there´s a steel umbrella (for lack of better description) that is pushed rearwards and make the rubber obturator expand, and thus seal the chamber vs the shooter.
Now. As this happens there´s a mass weight to the parts involved and.. as the boolit leaves the barrel the chamber is still shut closed. As in dead closed.
This hands a pressure relief as the bullet leaves the bore which will induce a sub pressure down same bore, which to the letter pulls all debris out of there.
Yes. I know it sounds like sorcery of the worst kind but.. this is one of the real treats of this rifle. Caseless ammo. For real. In 1866.

The original bullet though was another matter. Weighing in at 385 grains, sources have it, it sure might have propelled the living daylights out anything close seeing the nominal powder load of 88 grains but..
Well.
Let it just settle at that the Chassepot was known to shoot very far, just not very precise.

I came to investigate that, die hard, and arrived on a fair bit of solutions that has made the Chassepot into the marksman rifle it can be, and should be seeing its inherents.
The one major culprit here being its absolutely MASSIVE forcing cone.

The idea of the original cartridge is that the forcing cone being of ample size and length, to say the least, will make the slightly cone shaped bullet come to rest on it.
Then the integrity of the cartridge, the black powder charge being dense enough, will make the cap "stand still" enough when that firing needle comes running.
This also brings that as such a Chassepot can not, using anything close to the original cartridge, be fired with anything but "full loads".
What´s more it also brings that the bullet can in reality, and sure as hell will, basically kink around to hearts content vs that absolutely MASSIVE forcing cone, of course making accuracy drop out the window like you won´t believe.

Now.



Enter dear old "Racing" cause what i first up came to figure was that noone in his right migh shoots 385 grains slugs in 45 these days when accuracy AND long range is on the agenda.

So. First up, a bore rider. In the true meaning of the word. I started out with modifying the old US made 457/500 government roundnose.. and coupled that by simply replacing that INSANELY complex paper cartridge setup with.. yep. Jumbo straws.



Several iterations of this cartridge was, and is, made. What we´ve arrived on though is nothing short of shattering as we in one massive blow made the Chassepot into the marksman rifle it sure CAN be.
Yes. That there is 4 shots and to be honest the flyer is on me.

..to be continued then.. 

[Racing]

Yes. You´re correct. The bolt sure looks a little different. Yes, correct. That black thingy there is the rubber obturator.
Thing is, the basic idea carries loads of merit and actually works 100% fine with Triple 7 as well as holy black as well as Duplex loads.

Yep. The Chassepot is one STRONG rifle, seeing its age, and will take rather stiff loads no questions asked. That said i HAVE NOT tried smokeless in it, and nor will i ever. No point, this is a bonafide blackpowder rifle after all.

Back.. to history.
So.
The Chassepot is up and running and to put this into context it brings that production comes to almost two million! 
Approx 1 million of them made by the French, the rest made all over Europe. England, Spain, Italy, Belgium and so on and so on. To state the Chassepot was a grand hit and the wave of the future?
Yeah, and as history has it... then some.

Now. There´s an old European saying.
No Dybböl then no Köninggrätz and no Königgrätz no Paris.. and no Paris no Germany.
During the US civil war, 1864, the Preussians invaded Denmark and kicked the living crap out of them at Dybböl. One of the major reasons for this happening was that the Preussians had developed the Dreyse needle rifle which had been commisioned since approx the 1840´s. The Dreyse also a needle gun and thus a breech loader, bringing firepower up in a manner where muzzle loaders would be like shooting sitting ducks basically.
So.. Dybböl, check.
Then the Preussians turn on Austria/Hungary which leads to the very famed battle of Königgrätz. where the Austrians in essence get their asses handed to them out of the same reasons the Danes did.
So. Austria, check.

France at this time started to squirm being Preussias neighbour.. and arrives on that rather than being attacked they invade Preussia instead.
So. The Chassepot is put into use, and it shows being the WAY WAY WAY better rifle than the Dreyse. Especially so longer range.
However, what good did that do as the Preussians had developed their "Krupp Stahl" for their cannons and large guns.. and there the French were equipped with smooth bore cannons since the Napoleon wars at the start of the 1800´s.
No contest really, but the Franco- Preussian war turns into.. a very very complex proposition. With Napoleon the 3d to surrender while the French people not..
Why Paris was under seige for the better part of -70/-71. ...and due Germany, as a state, was born at Versailles of all places in 1871. So no, Germany per se isn´t especially old to be honest..

Due result tho insane amounts of Chassepot rifled were seized and brought back to Germany and guess what... At that exact time Peter Mauser introduces his first Mauser! LOL
Having studied them both, the Mauser that started it all is nothing but a Chassepot intended for a unity brass cartridge. Something the French did as well in 1874, converting most Chassepot rifles left making them Gras rifles.
Basically the same rifle, just chambered for a regular brass cartridge.

So. As you can gather the Chassepot is a very very important piece of kit seeing ITS history and history per se. Indeed. "the worlds first modern rifle".

To us here in Viking land the Chassepot is also the rifle that falls between the chairs as it per definition is permit exempt. Hence, you can just pick them up and, to the letter, fire away.
Over the yrs this has led to that i´ve had quite a few of them through my shop, and see NO reason what so ever to make that come to a halt. Under ways finding out more and more about them, and how to bring them into the 21st century.
Ie; how to put them to good use today.

Sure. There´s those models that should be kept stock at all cost but truth be told them are scarce and for the rest of them.. hey guys.. TWO MILLION of them! HELLO!
Do with a Chassepot what you see fit i say.

Be that as it may, the "specials" then.
Yeah.



This is one of them. Approx 60k were made buuuut...the absolute majority of them were converted to Gras specs why finding ANY cavalry Chassepot (which this is) is a feat and finding one that´s about mint.. is plain out.
This one tho..is.
The cavalry Chasse is simple to identify. First up, all brass furniture. Second up, no provision for a bayonet. Barrel is shorted some and stock is shorted some - vs the regular infantry rifle that is.



Well, a few jobs i did pull. As a gun, to me, that won´t shoot is just a dead piece of metal and wood what needs to be done needs to be done. Maintenance.



Uhu. A St Etienne gun no doubt. No. Gun has not been "worked upon". None.. It is this well preserved.



Another such difference vs the infantry rifle, or the absolute majority of them at least, is that the bolt handle comes out mid ships and is in turn turned down 90deg so it won´t hit the horseman in his back.





For those of you that have never seen the mint bore of a 45cal rifle made back in 1870.. this is it. Fast twist, indeed.



Yes. Action looks just as nice, and with the install of a fresh obturator also works just as good. Thing is in reality a time capsule really.



A really lovely, and light to boot, single shot from back when they were invented. Thing shoots well too, by now i´ve put like 400 rnds through it, and it just goes boom every time.

Culprit to solve still though is the one of soot, cause soot these guns do it´ll drive you insane!!! 4 rounds max.. then bolt out and a bronze brush put to work.
Yet another 4 rounds... you get it.

Having read up online though i want to go on record and state that if you run into a working Chassepot (firing needles and rubber obturators are service spares and readily available) pick it up!
What gets most that are fresh to the Chassepot is the ammo for them but seeing we´ve certainly solved that part.. If you wish to make cartridges up that are historically correct, feel free to.
Seeing how labor intense that is though.. that´s not how you handle making rounds to bring the friends of yours for some plinking... them "jumbo straws" truly are da bomb.
VERY VERY fast to make, works kind of like Lego, and works EVERY time (in contrast to most takes on the original cartridges).
In summary a cheap high power rifle to keep in service..
Mark. Seeing them 500 grain pills exit at 1300+ is commonplace. A little trix and do´s and don´ts...and you´re soon climbing vs 1400.
..n see 500 grains at 1400fps is one rather stiff powerhouse.

[Racing]

So where the infantry gun carries what´d have to be dubbed "very optimistic rear sights" the cavalry gun does not. Way more compact and set to a more sane 800 meters.
The infantry one, as you´ll get to see, can be graded to an insane 1800! 



Mods then. I´ve got two still with me that have in essence had the entire book thrown at ´em. This, from the onset a British made Potts&Hunts gun, dubbed "the sleeper".
The guns works off of a single locking lug and one culprit here is that the bolts of the Chassepot are often just about "self centering", wobbling around you won´t beleive.

Be that as it may jury´s still out.. but anyways. Reasoned as such that i don´t need the full 90deg locking so i opted fabbing a "fill in" to make that into 55deg.
In turn, the original trigger for the Chassepot is a damn joke why i replaced that with an Anschutz match jobbie.
This though led to that i had to move the entire trigger guard rearwards a fair bit too.. and what not.



As i bought the thing it was already "ruined" as someone had tried to chamber it for 45-70 i believe. Not only that but doing a rather poor job of it too!.. looking at the remnants i got out of there.



Turned a fresh chamber insert for it out of tool room steel, boring the barrel out and then in turn cutting it, indexing the chamber insert and welding that to the barrel with the TIG and thereafter installing the stock piece ontop of that, again welding it shut.

Idea here two fold. A WAY sturdier chamber AND getting rid of that no good forcing cone once and for all.



Yes. To keep it permit exempt of course the "sealing" of it needs to be handled, but i also wanted a bolt that stands friggin still. So what i did was cut a replacable nose cone that sports cuts for sealing piston rings for a turbo charger. Works a million bux, and not only does it seal is scrapes residue off too.



Here the chamber insert in case. I guess you could state that these originally are 45-90 guns. Well. This one is now an easy 45-120 gun.



Yes. A jig works wonders and barrel has since been dressed on the lathe, of course.



Mockup upon mockup..and getting there, bit by bit. The receiver has been modified too, apart from the 55deg lug setup. Stock these guns have their recoil lugs at the utmost rear. One of them.
I drilled into the front of the receiver and installed a threaded weldbung why the receiver now sports two recoil lug points.. In turn the entire barrel has been bedded and i´ve been sneaky enough to retain the barrel bands while making damn sure them not touching the barrel.

Then..



I´m sure there´s "iron men" amongst us that´ll fire off packed 45-120 rounds sans a limb saver or whatever all day. Me i can sure take my fair share of beating too but.. when sending say 100 such rounds in one sitting?
Hell no.
So i married that muzzle brake in as best as i could, making it as slim as reasonable while at it. Think of it what you may 



FAAAAAAR from done, but i guess you can gather why "the sleeper" cause yank that glass off of there and the bipod too.. and the thing will STILL perform like any stock Chassepot will not.
Bolt btw is now out of SIS-2241 high grade stainless steel.



There´s no arguing as far as origins either i hope. 


Yeah! On the bayonet for these guns!
..or.. should i say swords.



Good ol´ Fredrik there is like 185cm.. look at that thing. It turns the rifle into a damn spear! A sharp one! I´m a historic shooter however why.. cool enough to own ONE of them, but that´s it thank you very much.

Since i´ve owned more of them and will update for all to see. In fact there´s yet another one inbound shortly too..



Here the last iteration bore-rider boolit, with a reduced charge next to it. Yes. The use of jumbo straws for cartridge hulls makes that you simply pry the wings apart every so slightly of a musket cap and install that "inside out" to the cartridge.
The strength of the walls of the straw will make that cap "stand still" easy as the needle comes rushing, making the cartridge go off with basically any charge you see fit.
Just make sure to use filler need be...

[Captainkirk]

Holy Smokes, Racing! A history lesson and a gunsmithing tutorial all at once! Incredible thread, thank you for sharing all the ins and outs on this one. Sounds like you could stick to Chassepots only and have a thriving business with those sorts of production numbers.

[ShotgunDave]

Bravo Racing!! Best thread in a very long time, by far! Like the good Capt said, history lesson and gunsmithing all in one. Fabulous!

This is a rifle I'd love to have. They're not as prevalent here in the states as they are over there.

[Shootemup]

Thanks Racing very interesting write up.

[Racing]

Thx gentlemen!
This with the Chassepots n me has kind of turned into the never ending story, so as i regard it might as well do the most of it.



The evolution of the "new era" ammo was mainly done with this one as a mule. Tossed the entire book at it way back fellas, and it surely responded accordingly.
To the point where it gets impressive how much there is to be wrought out of a 160yr old barrel and gun.

There´s WAY more to come tho, and as stated.. if you run into one just pick it up. They are THAT fun to use n shoot.. and seeing they´re carrying "modern day n era" pedigree as far as rifling twist and caliber.. once handed what they crave damn accurate guns to boot.



So, just sold this one to a fellow member of the club. A "fixer upper" to an amount i guess (wood) but one that works and fires as they should.
..which..



..carries that push elongated insane rear sight.

Then in turn..















...i´ve got this really well preserved one inbound.

[Captainkirk]

Looking forward to the fix on it!

[ShotgunDave]

Such a cool rifle. Looking forward to hearing more.

[Zulch]

Racing, by the way, what’s the axe in the picture? Looks interesting too?👍

[Hawg]

Awesome writeup and excellent work as always.

[Racing]

@ Zulch.
As off topic as it gets i guess, but sure. Let´s! 
I make a living off of building,designing, repairing tube amps. But, i´m a gigin guitarist too, and as such have come to cherish the old Japanese Matsumoku made guitars.
The one in the pic is one of the "shop guitars" for anyone to use. An Aria Pro II PE-460, but i own like 35 of them or so and mainly then the high end offerings. Hence.. "shop guitar".

That said.

I give you the one band, "Drunk & disorderly" 



I indeed go lead in two bands, so here a current favorite. A 1977 vintage Aria Pro II PE-130. The "most" LesPaul offered that year. Amp in turn is one of my own brainchilds, based on a Swedish made Champion GM-25 originally built in Stockholm back in 1943.
..the tune in turn i bet is nothing new. 
Please take into account that the vid is done with a simple cell phone, and as live as it gets. Editing and mastering is for cowards.. 



Here at work.

Enjoy.

[Captainkirk]

That was fun!
You need to stop in to our Music thread and give us some more of this sorta stuff:

https://coltcountryforum.com/index.php/board,123.0.html

[Zulch]

Racing👍Thanks for sharing. Nothing like a little Priest to get your morning going. LOL. Nice cover man👍 As the good Capt said you should post more of your music stuff over in the music section. Love to hear more of your one take no edits or overdubs music😊👍 . Tim

[ShotgunDave]

Now this is how to start the day! Vintage guns and Judas Priest!! Well done Racing!!!