Hi, back in July 2013 I did a few experiments testing different powders using an 1858 Remington. The Colt 1860 8" should produce similar results. I repeat that data here for posterity:
Hi, I am setting up to do an experiment to evaluate different cap and ball powders.
I have my different C&B powders contained in the Traditions brass powder flask where each has a 30gr (by volume) spout. The weights thrown for different powders using the 30gr spout of the flask:
Black MZ - 23.3gr
Graf Black Powder 3F - 28.2gr
Swiss Black Powder 3F - 24.4gr
Triple 7 3F - 19.2gr
Pyrodex P - 18.2gr
Tomorrow I am receiving two additional Tradition powder flasks and will use one to hold the new Goex Olde Eynsford. I will post the weight thrown for the 30gr spout flask after the flask is charged.
After degreasing 6 Pietta 1858 cylinders and blowing out the nipples with compressed air, I loaded 5 of the cylinders with 30gr by volume of each of the 5 powders currently held in flasks, a 0.030" fiber wad was added to cover the powder, a 1/8" thick lubed wad was added, and then a 0.454 Hornady swaged ball was loaded using the Tower of Power loading stand. The Olde Eynsford cylinder will be loaded tomorrow. The fiber wad is to protect the powder from being wetted by the lube. Caps were placed on the nipples to prevent moisture infiltration. Each of the loaded cylinders are now safely held in my cylinder range box.
The cylinder numbers are:
1, Black MZ
2, Graf Black Powder 3F
3, Swiss Black Powder 3F
4, Triple 7 3F
5, Pyrodex P
6, Olde Eynsford
I intend on using a Pietta 8" barrel 1858 Remington for testing. The six shots from each cylinder will be measured with a chronograph, and then the six shots averaged. I expect the firing to be done at least 10ft from the chronograph as to not hit it will firing debris.
Well, that's my plan. Does anyone have any thoughts or concerns about this experiment? Anything to add or subtract? (^h (^h (^h
Regards,
Richard
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Hi, the new Traditions flask arrived today and I loaded it up with Olde Eynsford black powder. The 30gr by volume nozzle threw:
Goex Olde Eynsford - 23.8gr
This is very close to the weight thrown with Swiss. An observation is that the Olde Eynsford doesn't have as nice a black shine as Swiss. It's a little duller in appearance.
Today I moved some of my steel targets around so that a steel target will protect the chronograph from being hit while firing. Assuming the weather is good tomorrow, I expect to run my velocity experiments with the six different powders all loaded to the same volume.
Regards,
Richard
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Hi, I completed the powder test this morning. Let me warn you, you may not like the results. Some closely held beliefs are going down.
Six Pietta cylinders that have a chamber diameter of 0.446-0.447 were loaded by 30gr black powder equivalent volume using the following different powders:
Black MZ - 23.3gr
Graf Black Powder 3F - 28.2gr
Swiss Black Powder 3F - 24.4gr
Triple 7 3F - 19.2gr
Pyrodex P - 18.2gr
Goex Olde Eynsford - 23.8gr
The number next to the powder is the actual weight. A 0.030" fiber wad was placed over each chamber followed with a 1/8" lubed felt wad. That was compressed in my Tower of Powder loader and then a 0.454 Hornady ball (from the same new box) was added and compressed. CCI #10 caps were used.
Each cylinder was loaded into a 8" barrel Pietta 1858 Remington and fired 10ft from a Chrony chronograph. Velocity measurement for each shot was taken. After each cylinder was fired, the bore was cleaned with patches of a Ballistol/water mix to evaluate fouling and to clean the bore for the next cylinder powder tested.
The results:
Black MZ
678.3
728.8
774.3
705.1
677.6
Average - 712.82
Standard Deviation - 40.39
Graf BP 3F
665.3
670.4
678.1
678.1
669.8
Average 672.34
Standard Deviation - 5.62
Swiss BP 3F
911
915.3
908.3
933.8
933.8
915.3
Average - 919.58
Standard Deviation - 11.33
Triple 7 3F
816.4
835.3
785.3
875.9
888.6
878.6
Average - 846.68
Standard Deviation - 41.09
Pyrodex P
297.9
543.4
729.2
636.6
535.5
521.2
Average - 543.97
Standard Deviation - 144.24
Olde Eynsford BP 3F
891.3
910.2
890.9
928
901.7
914.6
Average - 906.12
Standard Deviation - 14.41
The following is a print screen of the Excel spreadsheet:
The fouling is my subjective judgement of the crud on the cleaning patch:
Black MZ - Very light
Graf Black Powder 3F - Very heavy
Swiss Black Powder 3F - Moderate
Triple 7 3F - Light
Pyrodex P - Heavy
Goex Olde Eynsford - Moderate
Some things to note:
I was only able to get chronograph readings from five shots from both the Black MZ and Graf BP. These were the first two cylinders tested where I was shooting too close over the chronograph and got an error message instead of a velocity for one of the shots. The next thing to note is that the Pyrodex used was from a sealed bottle that may be 20yrs old. Besides the squib Pyrodex shot velocity, notice the variability in velocity for Pyrodex. My closely held belief that Black MZ was the best powder since sliced bread goes down in flames. The velocity variability is terrible. I think this come from the variability of the Black MZ very coarse powder grains not metering properly in a small 30gr measure. While the fouling is minimal with Black MZ the velocity variability is terrible. I will put both my Black MZ and Pyrodex stash on the turnip truck that's going to the dumps.
My testing with my 1858 suggests that Swiss and the new Olde Eynsford will be my goto powders.
I will be happy to answer any questions or entertain any comments. I hope this testing will be as useful to you as it was to me.
Regards,
Richard
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Hi, good data should never be left idle. I calculated the bullet (.454 ball) energy from my tests and then normalized the bullet energy for different powder weights to the weight of basic black powder, the Graf BP.
The result:
Bullet energy:
Black Mz - 159.05ft-lb
Graf BP - 141.5ft-lb
Swiss BP - 264.7ft-lb
Triple 7 - 224.4ft-lb
Pyrodex - 92.62ft-lb
Olde Eyn - 257ft-lb
Powder weight:
Black MZ - 23.3gr
Graf Black Powder 3F - 28.2gr
Swiss Black Powder 3F - 24.4gr
Triple 7 3F - 19.2gr
Pyrodex P - 18.2gr
Goex Olde Eynsford - 23.8gr
Bullet energy per unit powder weight, normalized to Graf BP:
Black MZ - 136.04%
Graf Black Powder 3F - 100%
Swiss Black Powder 3F - 216.2%
Triple 7 3F - 232.92%
Pyrodex P - 101.42%
Goex Olde Eynsford - 215.2%
Notice that the most energetic powder by weight is Triple 7 and that Swiss is over twice the power of the pedestrian run-of-the-mill Graf BP. Also, notice how close Swiss is to Olde Eynsford in energy by weight.
Note that the very poor performance of Pyrodex was due to the one squip cylinder chamber during testing. I considered throwing out that squib, but decided not to. If you needed that cylinder chamber to work, Pyrodex would have failed you. Also, the other velocity variability of Pyrodex leaves no interest for me.
Regards,
Richard
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Hi, I conducted velocity tests of 3f Swiss Powder using a Pietta 8" barrel 1858 Remington. Six cylinders were loaded with different weights of Swiss Black Powder and 141gr Hornady swaged ball. Powder weights (not volume) of 10,15,20,25,30, and 35grs were tested. Each cylinder was loaded with Swiss powder, followed by a 0.030" thick .45 Colt fiber wad, followed by a 1/8" thick Sagebrush lubed wad, followed by the 141gr Hornady 0.454 ball. The ball, wads and powder were compressed using the Tower of Power loading stand. No filler was used. A Chrony chronograph was used to measure velocity. CCI #10 caps were used. Each cylinder (six shots) were fired and the muzzle velocity measured. The results:
10gr 528.33 fps 25.90 SD 87.38 f-lb
15gr 679.63 fps 15.56 SD 144.58 f-lb
20gr 806.27 fps 17.06 SD 203.48 f-lb
25gr 909.46 fps 11.33 SD 258.90 f-lb
30gr 997.98 fps 18.91 SD 311.76 f-lb
35gr 1076.2 fps 6.83 SD 362.54 f-lb
Some things to note: The 35gr loading was a maximum load, the ball was almost flush with the face of the cylinder. The ball energy at maximum load is consistent with a 230gr .45 ACP. All the weights given are actual powder weight measured by an accurate electronic reloading scale. The reason I used actual weight instead of volume is for weight accuracy for the low weight charges. You can convert the weight to volume if you choose by using the actual weight of Swiss thrown by a 30gr volume measure:
Swiss Black Powder 3F - 24.4gr
Of special interest to me was the efficiency of Swiss powder with different loadings. I created a chart of muzzle energy as a function of powder weight, see photo:
Isn't that beautiful, the muzzle energy is almost linearly directly proportional to the powder weight. It should be noted that from previous velocity testing the new GOEX Olde Eynsford will perform almost identical to Swiss black powder, weight for weight.
I hope you find these results useful.
Regards,
Richard
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Hi, if you extrapolate the muzzle energy chart to zero, the intercept is ~2.5gr of Swiss powder. That suggests that ~2.5gr of powder is required to overcome the friction of the ball in the bore.
Therefore a minimum powder loading for an 8" 1858 Remington is ~2.5gr of Swiss. Anything less and the ball will get stuck in the bore.
Regards,
Richard
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I hope you Colt users will find this information as useful to you as it was to me.
Regards,
Richard
