New Pietta 1851 Navy

[ssb73q]

I've had at least 3 hand springs break on me (fixed with the bobby pin trick) I also had a bolt spring break before I even fired the NIB gun. It happens. Mike's coil springs are amazing. And the best part for Open Top Colts is getting a cap rake and action shield installed. You will never worry about a cap frag jam again.
As far as caps go, keep looking. They eventually pop up but you have to be ready to grab them. Watch Cabelas and Bass Pro online sites daily. Last time around I snagged 1000. You can also make your own. Several of our members have posted excellent "How To" threads detailing this. Just use the search bar or view the caps section:

https://coltcountryforum.com/index.php/board,36.0.html

Hi Kirk, you must live in an alternative universe.  I have never had a spring fail in any handgun I have ever owned. Gum up the revolver and I understand why a spring may fail. If an owner cleans up the inside of their revolver, and removes the rough spots, the springs will last longer than them. You can take that to the bank. 

Regards,
Richard

[Captainkirk]

Well, not making this up. Maybe it's because I handle these things a lot, whether shooting or just playing with them in front of the TV? As you know, all my guns get thoroughly cleaned immediately after shooting, so can't be that. But it happens.

[Marshal Will]

I must live in that same alternate universe as you, Kirk. The factory springs in these things are crap, not to mention the hack job done to them at the factory to make them work.

As far as I'm concerned, a new BP revolver is just a starter kit that needs to be made right.

[ssb73q]

Well, not making this up. Maybe it's because I handle these things a lot, whether shooting or just playing with them in front of the TV? As you know, all my guns get thoroughly cleaned immediately after shooting, so can't be that. But it happens.

Hi Kirk, I'm not suggesting that I don't believe you. However, I am concerned about giving newbies advice that modifies their revolver where they may never know what parts to buy if ever needed in the future. Goon won't be around forever (I hope it's a long time from now), but keeping a revolver stock where parts are readily available makes a lot more sense. Frankly I regret any modification to any firearm that I have ever made. They all come with unintended consequences. Like putting Ruger hand springs in Colt replicas is an example. Leave one's BP revolver stock!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Regards,
Richard

[ssb73q]

I must live in that same alternate universe as you, Kirk. The factory springs in these things are crap, not to mention the hack job done to them at the factory to make them work.

As far as I'm concerned, a new BP revolver is just a starter kit that needs to be made right.

Hi Marshal, IMO the factory stock springs are quite good. The real problem are burrs and roughness left in the channels of the revolver frame. Clean them up and the springs will last a lifetime. I was a scientists and sometimes metallurgist in a past life so i have some insight to this issue.

Regards,
Richard

[45 Dragoon]

Hi Kirk, you must live in an alternative universe.  I have never had a spring fail in any handgun I have ever owned. Gum up the revolver and I understand why a spring may fail. If an owner cleans up the inside of their revolver, and removes the rough spots, the springs will last longer than them. You can take that to the bank. 

Regards,
Richard

If that's the case, I've  got a lot of folks "bank deposits" in a pile here in the shop. Lol (I used to keep them in a can .  .  .  those "unbreakable" wire springs too!!)

By the way, you can put stock parts back in any of my "upgraded " revolvers  if that's what is needed.

Any parts mod is easy  to see if one needs replacing and torsion springs are easy to make. So, as long as parts are obtainable,  there's no reason these "tuned" revolvers should ever break.

Mike

PS. Not many ( if any) stock Italian revolvers win State Championships, most are tuned .  .  .  mine are better  .  .  . Lol!!

[Marshal Will]

I must live in that same alternate universe as you, Kirk. The factory springs in these things are crap, not to mention the hack job done to them at the factory to make them work.

As far as I'm concerned, a new BP revolver is just a starter kit that needs to be made right.

Hi Marshal, IMO the factory stock springs are quite good. The real problem are burrs and roughness left in the channels of the revolver frame. Clean them up and the springs will last a lifetime. I was a scientists and sometimes metallurgist in a past life so i have some insight to this issue.

Regards,
Richard

After cleaning off all the factory protective grease, I clean all the channels and bearing surfaces of burrs. The springs don't last for beans anyway. If they're hardened improperly for the job, or left with mill marks or scratches, they will fail. It's easy to replace them with piano wire that does last a lifetime.

[ssb73q]

Hi Mike, if a part can be replaced with the original part, I have no problem with a new new and improved version modification. I did the same with the Ruger hand springs that allowed my cylinders to over rotate. I can understand the desire for an owner of a BP firearm to have it set up to be an exceptional firearm. From everything I have seen, you are the best of the bunch modifying BP revolvers to produce exceptional firearms. I misspoke when I said that no BP firearm should ever be modified. I regularly change sights so the POI=POA and correct Uberti arbor lengths.

Hope I didn't ruffle too may feathers.

Regards,
Richard

[Captainkirk]

Hope I didn't ruffle too may feathers.

Not at all! Open discussion and sharing of opinions is what we are all about here!

[45 Dragoon]

Richard!!! No ruffled feathers here my friend!!

We've had a long history of back and forth and "good banter" is actually great exercise!!! ( for skull !!)

  I agree with your  Ruger  hand spring  upgrade!!  Jim Martin cautioned me on that which is why I came up with "my" version.  I use a slightly larger diameter plunger ( "Pushrod" in my shop!!) and a shorter/ stouter spring.  It mimics the Colt "breaking force "on the cyl to keep from having throw-by problems.  Rugers setup is just too weak! (And partly why they have "Beauty rings " !!)

Mike

[ShotgunDave]

Welcome to the club Oldman!

I live in that same alternate universe as Capt and Marshal. I have had two broken hand springs and more trigger/bolt springs broken than I can count. What is your plan for the new gun? Shoot it once in while? Or will it see regular use?

You could just enjoy it as is, and see how you like it. When something breaks, send it off to Mike for a rebuild. When you get it back from him, you'll understand why those of us that have "Goonerized" guns, wouldn't trade them for anything. I have two myself. A Dragoon and an 1860 Army. They will be buried with me.

[Zulch]

Here's a typical open top action.

Mike, that spring in the picture reminds me of a clothes pin spring. Stylistically that is.

[45 Dragoon]

Yessir!!! Can't believe you outed me!!! 

 Well, kinda .  .  .  Those are "torsion" springs which basically means your either trying to wind them tighter or unwind them. They apply "torque" in either direction.  Torque applies rotational force which depending on the number of coils (length of) extends the longevity of that spring. The fact that the "movement" of the spring is spread over such a large area extends the life of that spring. Hence, you get an amazingly long life with that spring rather than a " how many times can I bend this thing till it breaks" type of spring. "Saplings bend, Oaks break". 
    With each part being powered by its own spring,  you can "dial in" or adjust the amount of tension needed for the operation needed.
Not to mention,  the action parts don't need heavy loads to move them through their normal operation ( they don't  move much)  except for the hammer!!! The hammer is a heavy  payload that needs the fastest movement. The best spring for that application is, in fact, a flat spring!!  Flat springs move a payload faster, with more power, which is exactly what's needed for quick ignition in a revolver or firearm.  Even a $2,500.00 Freedom Arms  S.A. uses a flat main spring .  .  . because it's the best "tool" for the job!!!

Mike

[Zulch]

Hey Mike, Thanks for the detailed explanation. I suppose the tightly wound coil part just rests in the cavity of the frame as an anchoring (nesting) place?

[oldman]

Well guys I have had a busy week, and finally got around to trying out the new Navy today. When I cleaned the factory grease off it, all I did was remove the barrel, nipples and cleaned it all up. Today I run a dry patch down the barrel before loading it to clean any oil out. Loaded it up with about 17 grains of 3f and put #10 CCI caps on it, lowered the hammer and got ready to shoot in my backyard. Went to cock it and it would not cock? So, I took out the wedge and removed the barrel, and cylinder. Looked it over but could not find anything wrong, put the cylinder back on, and barrel with the wedge. Cocked the hammer and fired all 6 rounds no problem, and even hit the coke can that I threw out there about 25 feet. Loaded it back up again and the same thing happened again after trying to cock it? Had to do the same thing to fire the next 6 rounds. Glad this did not happen at the range! Took it inside and torn the whole gun down, cleaned the entire gun, put it all back together and will try again later. Did not see anything wrong inside, not very greasy inside, no burrs and looks pretty good to my untrained eyes. Does not make sense to me, but I guess I will wait and see if it happens again. This is not making me a happy man, and it may make up my mind to send it off for the Goon work if it happens again. Any ideas why it would turn find before loading and not turn after loading and capping? The caps were not touching and were pushed on good before trying to shoot. Sure did not happen with the Pietta Remington 1858.