Looking back at the problem

[Navy Six]

I ran across this video by Mark Hubbs a few years ago but is causing me to re-think things about cap jamming.

I have done the usual preparation on all my percussion pistols--arbor length correction, Slix Shot nipples, action tuning, hammer face polishing etc., but still get occasional cap jams on my Colt repros. I have not cared to install a cap post for a variety of reasons and probably never will. Watching Mark's hi-speed video showed the hammer being blown back on the Uberti 60 Army with stock hammer spring. Thing is, you couldn't see it at normal speed until the video was slowed down and for three frames it was clearly evident.
After my research in regards to original Colt percussion pistols, mention was frequently made that original mainsprings felt much heavier compared to modern repros.
My intention this year is to acquire several heavier type mainsprings and test them in guns that have proved a bit problematic as to cap jams.
P.S. Don't know what happened there but if you click on the "Watch on You Tube" it will take you there.

[Hawg]

He also said he fired 50 rounds without a cap jam. I've been lucky. I seldom get a cap jam and I can't remember having one with my Pietta 51 navy with stock nipples. However the first time my wife fired it it jammed up so bad I had to tear it down to clear it.

[45 Dragoon]

Just curious,  what are some reasons for not using cap posts?  The reason I ask is that it appears "cap jams", "cap sucking" is a more modern problem than when these revolvers were "cutting edge".  If that is the case, a modern fix ( cap post) for a modern problem doesn't seem to be that far "out of line".  I've had cowboy shooters shoot  over 160 rounds over a 3 day match with no cap jams and no disassembly with just a wipe down at the end of each day. 

   The originals heavier mains are ( to me anyway) a starting point. The "so it won't blow the hammer back" is a plausible argument and I think that is an acceptable statement.  After all, these were war machines for the most part.
  Today, they aren't.  They are typically used and setup for competition timed events which favors lighter springs for faster operation. The average Joe that is looking for fun shooting/ hobby  shooting/ hunting would rather not have to repair the revolver after each outing like many of us did back when we started ('70's for me) .  .  .   The lighter mains definitely make for more pleasant operation and much less thumb fatigue!! If a cap post is installed, the hammer won't go further back than the post since the post blocks the cap hull which is being blown back probably from a too large hole in the cone. 
  If you're going to use a heavy main, it'll just beat up the cones faster unless you set it up "safe for dry firing" which means the arbor correction is even more necessary so the cylinder can't move out of range for cap detonation. 
  So, the "best of both worlds" can definitely be reality but dedication to design build is key.

Mike

Ps  I saw the video after I posted. I don't think the hammer moves back far enough for the cap to be deposited in the action.  I DO think the blowback forces the cap hulls into the safety notch and then falls free ( shaken free while cycling) and can fall.

[Hawg]

Just curious,  what are some reasons for not using cap posts?  The reason I ask is that it appears "cap jams", "cap sucking" is a more modern problem than when these revolvers were "cutting edge".  If that is the case, a modern fix ( cap post) for a modern problem doesn't seem to be that far "out of line"

For me I want the experience to be as close as I can get it to what it was like back in the day. A cap post would deprive me of that pleasure as would modding internal parts. No I can't see the internal parts when I'm shooting it but I would know they were there. I don't consider stoning internal parts modding but bolt blocks, action stops etc. ain't gonna cut it with me. Besides I don't get enough cap jams to even bother worrying about it. I get the occasional cap stuck to the hammer or stuck on the nipple like it was welded on but that's about it. I don't like short barrels even tho there were a few  that were cut off historically. There weren't enough of them for it to be anywhere near a common thing. I don't like birds head grips or Rugers either. Well you asked. 

[45 Dragoon]

Just curious,  what are some reasons for not using cap posts?  The reason I ask is that it appears "cap jams", "cap sucking" is a more modern problem than when these revolvers were "cutting edge".  If that is the case, a modern fix ( cap post) for a modern problem doesn't seem to be that far "out of line"

For me I want the experience to be as close as I can get it to what it was like back in the day. A cap post would deprive me of that pleasure as would modding internal parts. No I can't see the internal parts when I'm shooting it but I would know they were there. I don't consider stoning internal parts modding but bolt blocks, action stops etc. ain't gonna cut it with me. Besides I don't get enough cap jams to even bother worrying about it. I get the occasional cap stuck to the hammer or stuck on the nipple like it was welded on but that's about it. I don't like short barrels even tho there were a few  that were cut off historically. There weren't enough of them for it to be anywhere near a common thing. I don't like birds head grips or Rugers either. Well you asked. 

 Hawgie, I think we all knew what your post would be!!!

[Hawg]

Hawgie, I think we all knew what your post would be!!!

Yeah well. At least I'm consistent.

[45 Dragoon]

Yeah well. At least I'm consistent.
[/quote]

For sure!!

[Captainkirk]

Well, I was a bit of a hard sell on a cap post (or rake, if you prefer). Until Mike talked me into one. Now I'm totally sold. Haven't had a cap jam on any of those guns since they were installed.

[Navy Six]

Well Mike, I may as well just copy Hawg's reply to your question for the most part. Since I consider modern caps as the real problem, I don't care to modify the guns. I am even a long time avid Cowboy shooter, but one who approaches things from an historical standpoint. However, I don't shoot the percussion pistols exclusively. With the already mentioned attention each gun receives, cap jams are not frequent. Admittedly, though, right in the middle of a Cowboy Match is not the time to be experiencing a cap jam! I fully agree that a light, smooth action is a joy to use, but if a heavier mainspring will almost eliminate those last few cap jams(on the few guns so prone), so be it. Since I don't participate in Cowboy matches worrying about my final Match Standing, what makes me happy is a nice clean presentation as close to period correct as reasonable.
I just saw on another site where someone is approaching the modern cap problem by making his own thicker caps on a 3-D printer! So far no report on how they are working. I would be willing to accept caps made of a different material since the modern cap manufacturers don't seem inclined to address the issue.

[Hawg]

I think most caps are made from thin copper altho I have had some made from brass in the past. However they're thinner than old caps which is probably why they didn't have as many cap problems in the old days.

[45 Dragoon]

 Thanks Cap !!!!

Well Mike, I may as well just copy Hawg's reply to your question for the most part. Since I consider modern caps as the real problem, I don't care to modify the guns. I am even a long time avid Cowboy shooter, but one who approaches things from an historical standpoint. However, I don't shoot the percussion pistols exclusively. With the already mentioned attention each gun receives, cap jams are not frequent. Admittedly, though, right in the middle of a Cowboy Match is not the time to be experiencing a cap jam! I fully agree that a light, smooth action is a joy to use, but if a heavier mainspring will almost eliminate those last few cap jams(on the few guns so prone), so be it. Since I don't participate in Cowboy matches worrying about my final Match Standing, what makes me happy is a nice clean presentation as close to period correct as reasonable.
I just saw on another site where someone is approaching the modern cap problem by making his own thicker caps on a 3-D printer! So far no report on how they are working. I would be willing to accept caps made of a different material since the modern cap manufacturers don't seem inclined to address the issue.

  Totally understand sir!!! I do get a couple or 3 customers a year wanting a flat spring tune with no cap post. Those are most of the time original revolvers but I do have a customer that has a shooter original that he wanted the full Outlaw Mule  ( coils,  action shield, adjustable wedge bearing, bolt block, action stop)  done to it.  It had no finish left on it but my fire blued screws really stood out !!  He liked it too and decided to NOT send it to Turnbull for a total refinish  .  .  .   at least not yet!!
  So, there's room for everybody and all tastes.  I will  say though,  there were "tuners" back then as well so a "slicked up" 6 shooter wouldn't be out of place .  .  .   hot rod guns / hot rod cars .  .  .  always was . . . always will be  !! 

[Hawg]

  there were "tuners" back then as well.

I'm sure there were but not common at all. People didn't shoot for the fun of it back then like they do now. Guns were tools or a means to an end. All those old west gunslingers didn't exist. There were plenty of outlaws, murders, thieves etc. but they didn't need slicked up guns. Cowboys didn't carry guns except for maybe when they went into town and they didn't need slicked up guns. Hell most of them didn't even own a gun. If they did it was usually an old C&B or a cheap gun like a Hopkins & Allen or a Belgian import. If anybody carried a slicked up gun it was the Marhalls.

[Zulch]

Great, and interesting post Navy Six. I don't get to shoot often and am still learning. I remember seeing a video somewhere, or maybe reading a post anyway, this may be very elementary to you guys but I'm still a greenhorn. IIRC, she stated that she rarely had cap jams and her accepted method or practice was that as she was pulling the hammer back between consecutive shots she would simultaneously be pulling the gun back, barrel pointing heavenward and sort of throw the cap out with a slight snap of the wrist? Whether or not this is good practice? It helps me discharge the cap more easily. Any thoughts or recommendations for me would be most appreciated.

[mike116]

Zulch,   it's called the "open top twist" or "Colt flip".    If you shoot much with revolvers prone to cap jambs it gets to be a habit.     

[Zulch]

Zulch,   it's called the "open top twist" or "Colt flip".    If you shoot much with revolvers prone to cap jambs it gets to be a habit.   

Mike, thank you my friend. It actually has a name? I suppose after you have done it long enough it will be like muscle memory?