Colt Country | Home of The Almighty Colt
Black Powder Pistols => Navy Models => Topic started by: Captainkirk on March 07, 2016, 10:43:59 AM
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Thinking about another Navy, don't want to break the bank on it though. Are the latest Piettas good quality or do I need to either save up for a Uberti or look for and older nice one (e.g. Navy Arms)
I want it to be .36 cal, not the Pietta .44.
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It almost appears Pietta has addressed the "bell-bottom tail" issue in this photo.
http://www.cabelas.com/product/shooting/firearms/black-powder-firearms/black-powder-revolvers%7C/pc/104792580/c/553829580/sc/571854780/i/567338580/pietta-model-1851-navy-yank-36-caliber-black-powder-revolver/705021.uts?destination=%2Fcatalog%2Fbrowse%2Fblack-powder-revolvers%2F_%2FN-1115735%2FNs-CATEGORY_SEQ_567338580
Anyone purchased one lately to confirm?
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Hi Kirk, I purchased three .36 Pietta 1851s in the last year or two. They come right out of the box perfect shooters. Having said that, I recently ordered a new Uberti .36 !851 Navy on sale from Dixie that should be here Wednesday. The Uberti cost a little more and you will need to do the arbor adjustment to have it correct. Both seem to have a grip tail. Pietta parts are lower cost and more available than the Uberti. Pietta specs #10 caps, Uberti's #11, but I have used #10 Remington caps on both with good results. IMO either the Pietta or Uberti would be a good shooting 1851 revolver.
There is no more accurate shooter than the .36 1851 Navy.
Regards,
Richard
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Richard, I have one...a 1979 C.O.M. imported by Excam. While I've done a truckload of work to the action and brass already, there are still things about it that irk me; mediocre wood-to-metal fitment, rough finished steel under the bluing, no crowning on the muzzle, and a bolt that drags and leaves "ring around the collar" marks. I'm debating on tearing this one down and going for the throat or starting fresh; #2 sounds like a better option so that's the way my thoughts are leaning. If so, I would want to start with the best Navy I could. I will wait to hear your report on the Uberti for comparison....
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Hi Guys,
I got my original .36 Navy over 20 years ago from a shop here in Vegas. It has proven to be an excellent shooter with both round ball and conical bullet. I couldn't tell you who made it other than it says "Made in Italy". I have always favored the grip that it has as being a natural pointer and quite comfortable. Fast forward to a couple years ago when I picked up a basket case Navy model in .44 caliber. All the parts were in the box in various states of finish from case hardened and new looking or blued and serviceable to sanded down and in need of a new finish. No brand name on it other than "Made in Italy". I wound up polishing the stripped parts and doing a hot water blue job then put it back together with a little fitting and fiddling here and there to make it functional again. The wooden grip got the same Truoil finish that I applied to my .36, but as you can see, the two grips similarity pretty much ends at that point. The .36 is on top.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v349/treadhead1952/Firearms%20Projects/1851ColtNavys001.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/treadhead1952/media/Firearms%20Projects/1851ColtNavys001.jpg.html)
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Insofar as Pietta Navies are concerned, you are not going to break the bank (unless you are as SS dependent as I am).
I purchased 2 Piettas within the past 15 months: an 1851 Navy steel .36 ([CM] 2014) to which I substituted a Pietta squareback TG (from Taylor's) to make it an 1851 Navy 2nd Model, and also a Pietta G&G .36 ([CN] 2015) brasser, both from Cabela's @ $200 and $220, respectively.
My goal was to create 5 somewhat historically correct replica pistols (1851 Navy 2nd Model, 1851 Navy 3rd Model, G&G, L&R, and S&G) using the two purchased pistols.
Between the two, and the spare TG, one can create about 9 more "fantasy" variations if one chooses to do so.
My favorite "fantasy" pistol is the 1851 steel with the G&G plain cylinder and barrel and the squareback TG. To me, this should have been Sam Colt's "midi" .36 Dragoon, rather than the full octagon barrel.
My next addition to the bunch (if feasible) is the Pietta Dance .44, only if the cylinder/barrel assembly is fully interchangeable with the standard Navy frame. I have a few feelers out, but it is not looking all that good.
The fantasy possibilities are immense if this works, but I'm not holding my breath.
To finally answer your concerns about Pietta quality, I would give it a firm heads up. Goon says (and I agree) that the arbor-to-barrel lug fit is better than Uberti. I don't own a Uberti, but my two Piettas are solid, with less than .002" cylinder-to-barrel gap from the factory. I had to do a bit of wedge fitting on both because I like to see the tip of the wedge spring protrude a bit on the right side of the barrel lug.
My 1851 Navy has the proverbial Pietta "tail", but the G&G does not. Go figure: has Pietta listened to criticisms about the "tail", or is this an anomaly?
Anyhoo, I wish you the best in your new endeavor/experiment: let us know what it is.
Nothing worse than letting us all hang in the breeze! ;)
Jim
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Latest Pietta Navy I bought was about a year ago. It has the tail. Zero complaints about the rest of it tho. Did replace the factory nipples also.
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My navy was made in 2011 and has the tail altho I think the 2015's either don't have it or have a reduced one. Mine has been no problem and timing is spot on but the grips are fat and proud at the top ala Pietta. Shoots pretty good too.
(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y269/rebel727/51%20Navy/targets007_zpscc82417c.jpg) (http://s7.photobucket.com/user/rebel727/media/51%20Navy/targets007_zpscc82417c.jpg.html)
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Hi Guys,
I got my original .36 Navy over 20 years ago from a shop here in Vegas. It has proven to be an excellent shooter with both round ball and conical bullet. I couldn't tell you who made it other than it says "Made in Italy". I have always favored the grip that it has as being a natural pointer and quite comfortable. Fast forward to a couple years ago when I picked up a basket case Navy model in .44 caliber. All the parts were in the box in various states of finish from case hardened and new looking or blued and serviceable to sanded down and in need of a new finish. No brand name on it other than "Made in Italy". I wound up polishing the stripped parts and doing a hot water blue job then put it back together with a little fitting and fiddling here and there to make it functional again. The wooden grip got the same Truoil finish that I applied to my .36, but as you can see, the two grips similarity pretty much ends at that point. The .36 is on top.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v349/treadhead1952/Firearms%20Projects/1851ColtNavys001.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/treadhead1952/media/Firearms%20Projects/1851ColtNavys001.jpg.html)
Jay, that lower one sure looks Pietta to me, being both a .44 and having the Pietta Tail.
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Jay, that lower one sure looks Pietta to me, being both a .44 and having the Pietta Tail.
Definitely a Pietta.
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I am finding this one somewhat intriguing....
http://www.dixiegunworks.com/product_info.php?cPath=22_92_187_189&products_id=14047
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1568/25600588025_040aa9bca4_z.jpg)
The tail would have to go, but it's a squareback TG model.
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Ooh, that's purty! Price is nice as well.
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Yea, that looks really nice, love the square-back trigger guard.
I'm sure some of you guys have done it (I have not) but I have read about and seen videos of the tail being modified. With as many fittings and adjustments as we tend to do with these guns, maybe modifying the tail would get you where you want to go? Even tho it would be a little more time consuming.
Anybody done the tail mod?
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On the 1858 Remington site M9Powell posted some pics of a 2015 manufacture Pietta 1851 Navy .36 that seemed to have a more Colt-ish grip, more bow at the top and less tail at the bottom. I think it looks great.
http://1858remington.com/discuss/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=9926.0;attach=7803;image
http://1858remington.com/discuss/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=9926.0;attach=7805;image
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Yes, much more of a Colt-ish look. I would have no qualms about going at a Pietta tail if that's what it takes to get what I want. Like Hawg says, they are usually too fat anyway.
Mike Beliveau did a video on removing the Pietta tail. I would probably do the same thing.
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"There is no more accurate shooter than the .36 1851 Navy."
Richard, please tell me more. Are you basing this on the three Pietta's you puchased recently? A super accurate 1851 is something I want.
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Hi Lonesome, see:
http://blackpowdersmoke.com/colt/index.php?topic=964.msg8210#msg8210
:) :) :)
Regards,
Richard
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Hi Kirk, if you are willing to wait, you should be able to buy a Pietta 1851 on sale from Cabelas, ~$170.
&\? &\? &\?
Regards,
Richard
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Hi Kirk, if you are willing to wait, you should be able to buy a Pietta 1851 on sale from Cabelas, ~$170.
&\? &\? &\?
Regards,
Richard
Of course. Keep me posted........
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Thanks ssb73q, that Pietta sounds like a great performing gun. I'm looking forward to hearing about the Uberti you are getting from Dixie. I recently got a Colt 2nd Gen 1851 that seems to not shoot as good as the Pietta you described but I am not sure if it's me or the gun. I'm thinking I should send it to Mike "Goon" before trying something else but the new Pietta's are very, very tempting.
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While not a "fanboy" I do prefer the Uberti versions of C&B revolvers. All Italian made revolves are "kitguns" in that they all need work to make them function to my liking. Some need more work than others. Uberti's have usually required a little less work to come to my standards.
Colt's made the Improved Belt Model in Navy Caliber and I would counsel you to look at that option. Much better than the 1851. Again, in my opinion.
As for the "Pietta tail", Colt's made the 1851 with a variety of grip shapes, at least one of which resembles that tail nicely. It is really not as inaccurate as the internet has made it out to be.
Kevin
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As for the "Pietta tail", Colt's made the 1851 with a variety of grip shapes, at least one of which resembles that tail nicely. It is really not as inaccurate as the internet has made it out to be.
100% agreed. From the top of my head, I seem to remember pictures in Swayze's "51 Navies" where grips have that kind of flare.
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Some do have a flare but I don't remember seeing any as pronounced as Pietta's. The grip design for the latest original 51's became the standard grip for the 73's.
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Some do have a flare but I don't remember seeing any as pronounced as Pietta's. The grip design for the latest original 51's became the standard grip for the 73's.
Indeed, and since everything back then was cast and then hand finished, there is quite a bit of variation noticed among the Model P. They are all true to a form but there is variation.
Kevin
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Some do have a flare but I don't remember seeing any as pronounced as Pietta's. The grip design for the latest original 51's became the standard grip for the 73's.
The grip design for the latest original 51's became the standard grip for the 73's.
That may be true, but you are digressing from the subject.
If you have, or can obtain, a copy of Nathan L. Swayze's " '51 Colt Navies" it might be an eye-opener. There are many styles of grip frame designs.
The folks that think that there is one true grip design for original 1851 Colt Navies are wrong. Period. The photos are proof.
So, to say that the Pietta "tail" design is not period design is false. It may not be "exactly" correct, but then Colt and the Confederate manufacturers weren't all that correct either.
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Since I started this thread, if I may....
My issue was not so much if the Pietta tail was correct, or close to it, but more an issue of taste. It feels and looks awkward in the extreme to me. If I was to purchase a new Pietta Navy with the extreme tail, I think I would have to make it go away for that reason more than any.
I realize that Colt hand-fitted most of the Navys and no two craftsmen are the same, so it is likely that several different profiles might appear. However, Pietta went overboard in the extreme in their rendition and I don't care for it.
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Richard, I have one...a 1979 C.O.M. imported by Excam. While I've done a truckload of work to the action and brass already, there are still things about it that irk me; mediocre wood-to-metal fitment, rough finished steel under the bluing, no crowning on the muzzle, and a bolt that drags and leaves "ring around the collar" marks. I'm debating on tearing this one down and going for the throat or starting fresh; #2 sounds like a better option so that's the way my thoughts are leaning. If so, I would want to start with the best Navy I could. I will wait to hear your report on the Uberti for comparison....
Hi Kirk, the new Uberti 1851 arrived today. While the physical appearance is very good, there are internal problems. As expected, this new Uberti has the Uberti short arbor curse. There is also an issue with the bolt dropping late. The bolt drops just as the bolt slot is over the bolt. A correctly set up Colt has the bolt drop just at the beginning of the bolt slot ramp, not at the end. This is important to not have the cylinder overtravel correct cylinder lockup. Try fast draw, or fanning, and this revolver would fail. This an easy fix by shortening the bolt legs a little. The action of this revolver is rough and will require some stoning. I will take apart this revolver tomorrow and report back anything new of interest.
As expected, this new Uberti 1851 is a gunsmith's delight, but shouldn't be. The Piettas are well timed for early bolt drop and run correctly right out of the box.
Regards,
Richard
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Thanks for the heads-up, Richard. I was hoping you were going to tell me different, but alas....
Appears if I want an out-of-the-box (OOTB) shooter I will have to go Pietta. Let me know if there are any upcoming sales from Cabelas....
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Some do have a flare but I don't remember seeing any as pronounced as Pietta's. The grip design for the latest original 51's became the standard grip for the 73's.
The grip design for the latest original 51's became the standard grip for the 73's.
That may be true, but you are digressing from the subject.
If you have, or can obtain, a copy of Nathan L. Swayze's " '51 Colt Navies" it might be an eye-opener. There are many styles of grip frame designs.
I don't have it but I have seen and handled more than a few originals and I have seen tons of pics of originals. I believe I already said there were variations in the frames but I don't remember any as extreme as Pietta. There may have been but I'm sure if there were they were few in number and could probably be traced to one fitter.
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Since we are discussing Pietta Navys with the "tail", I thought I would post what I refer to as the "bell-bottom" Pietta tail, as found on my .44 'sheriff' brasser:
(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3685/9514821243_b12c27b509_z.jpg)
IMHO, this is just wrong in the extreme (although like some jeans, the pictures "make it's butt look bigger") L@J
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Hi Kirt, I took the new Uberti 1851 apart and stone smoothed the internal action parts. The internals were very clean for a new Uberti. The bolt legs were shortened to the correct length to have the bolt drop right at the entrance of the cylinder lead in groove. A Wolff reduced power spring was installed and the action is now quite nice. A 0.075" long brass button was machined to lengthen the arbor the correct amount. That button was JB Weld to the arbor end and is now setting up. Tomorrow I can then file the brass arbor end to produce a 0.003" cylinder/barrel gap.
BTW, the Howell 38 Colt/38 Special conversion cylinder fits and operates in this revolver well with minimal side to side cylinder slop. A much better fit than in the Uberti engraved 1851. The engraved 1851 was shot 50rds yesterday using the conversion cylinder with 38 Special, but I'm not happy with the large 3.5" groups from 25yds. It also shot high, ~10". I guess that my engraved Uberti 1851 will become a display piece. Hopefully this new Uberti 1851 will be more accurate than the engraved 1851.
I will keep my eye open for sales on the Pietta 1851 at Cabelas for you.
Regards,
Richard
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Hi Kirt, I took the new Uberti 1851 apart and stone smoothed the internal action parts. The internals were very clean for a new Uberti. The bolt legs were shortened to the correct length to have the bolt drop right at the entrance of the cylinder lead in groove. A Wolff reduced power spring was installed and the action is now quite nice. A 0.075" long brass button was machined to lengthen the arbor the correct amount. That button was JB Weld to the arbor end and is now setting up. Tomorrow I can then file the brass arbor end to produce a 0.003" cylinder/barrel gap.
BTW, the Howell 38 Colt/38 Special conversion cylinder fits and operates in this revolver well with minimal side to side cylinder slop. A much better fit than in the Uberti engraved 1851. The engraved 1851 was shot 50rds yesterday using the conversion cylinder with 38 Special, but I'm not happy with the large 3.5" groups from 25yds. It also shot high, ~10". I guess that my engraved Uberti 1851 will become a display piece. Hopefully this new Uberti 1851 will be more accurate than the engraved 1851.
I will keep my eye open for sales on the Pietta 1851 at Cabelas for you.
Regards,
Richard
I highly suggest you check grouping using .375 or .380 RB before relegating it to a wall hanger. Gary Barnes (Hoof Hearted) and I had a long discussion about shooting .357 bullets from a .36 cal bore if not using a heel-based bullet and he doesn't recommend it for that exact reason.
Appreciate your updates on the Navys and the Cabelas sales.....
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Hi Kirk, you make a good point about using 38 Special. Looking back in the archive, I see that I did get groups of 2.5" @25yds using the Pietta 1851 with Magnus hollow based (hbwc) bullets. Speer hbwc produced groups ~3.5" @25yds. I used the Magnus loading in the engraved Uberti 1851 yesterday producing 3.5" groups. See:
http://blackpowdersmoke.com/colt/index.php?topic=932.msg8314#msg8314
I have all the dies necessary to load heeled bullets, but loading them would be a royal PITA.
You make a good point about testing the engraved Uberti 1851 with C&B to determine best accuracy with that revolver before considering retiring it.
Regards,
Richard
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Do you shoot much loose powder these days? I noticed most of your guns appear to be conversions.
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Do you shoot much loose powder these days? I noticed most of your guns appear to be conversions.
Hi Captain, I sure do shoot loose powder, mostly Black Mz. Also shoot holy black when motivated. I have a dozen extra Pietta 1858, dozen Pietta 1860, and eight .36 Pietta cylinders that I keep loaded for when the weather allows. Have conversion cylinders for all my revolvers except for the 1862 Colt. The extra cylinders are preloaded using Dick Dastardly's Tower of Powder loading tool.
I don't have extra C&B cylinders for my Ubertis so mostly use conversion cylinders with them.
Conversion cylinders are especially useful when I want to shoot and not worry about cleanup for a day or so. Most of my modern handguns have been safe queens since getting into replica BP handguns. BP revolvers return me to a day where I feel more connected with my shooting hobby.
Regards,
Richard
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Hi Captain, one more thought. While I love my Pietta's for economical BP shooting, I find the Uberti's, while problematic, do have a special feel in my hand. Maybe it's the idea that the Ubert's are almost exact copies of the originals? I'm not quite sure why I feel that way, but there is something special about handling the Uberti's. Every Uberti that I purchased needed work, maybe it's that fix-'em-up connection that appeals to me. Revolvers just personalized for me?
While I love the Pietta's, I love the Uberti's more.
Regards,
Richard
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I find the Uberti's, while problematic, do have a special feel in my hand. Maybe it's the idea that the Ubert's are almost exact copies of the originals?
In a few days I will post a thread (once I get all the photos in line) that will show the idea that any modern day replica is anywhere near an "exact copy" of the perfect Colt 1851 Navy is a fallacy.
Stay tuned...
Jim
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Something about the "Pietta tail". It's not just the flare at the bottom of the grip. It's that the top of the backstrap is not bowed out like a Colt. Some of the Colt's do have a bit of a tail but the top is bowed out and curves into the tail, whereas the Pietta is just no bow and a straight sweep into the flared tail. I'm talking about the older Pietta's. I haven't seen too many new ones but the ones I have seen seem to be much closer to Colt's.
sourdough, I'm looking forward to you comparison thread.
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Hi, the brass arbor button has been sized for a 0.003" cylinder/barrel gap, see:
(http://i1283.photobucket.com/albums/a549/ssb73q/ArborButton.jpg_zpsafulcygi.jpg) (http://s1283.photobucket.com/user/ssb73q/media/ArborButton.jpg_zpsafulcygi.jpg.html)
The timing is now perfect for both C&B and conversion cylinder, the action is smooth as silk, a real joy to hold and operate, one side:
(http://i1283.photobucket.com/albums/a549/ssb73q/NewUberti.jpg_zpsxqtqs3mg.jpg) (http://s1283.photobucket.com/user/ssb73q/media/NewUberti.jpg_zpsxqtqs3mg.jpg.html)
The other side:
(http://i1283.photobucket.com/albums/a549/ssb73q/NewUberti1.jpg_zpsutdsymom.jpg) (http://s1283.photobucket.com/user/ssb73q/media/NewUberti1.jpg_zpsutdsymom.jpg.html)
Now all that's left to do is shoot it.
Regards,
Richard
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I find the Uberti's, while problematic, do have a special feel in my hand. Maybe it's the idea that the Ubert's are almost exact copies of the originals?
In a few days I will post a thread (once I get all the photos in line) that will show the idea that any modern day replica is anywhere near an "exact copy" of the perfect Colt 1851 Navy is a fallacy.
Stay tuned...
Jim
Hi Jim, I'm waiting with bated breath for you to destroy my closely held belief that the Uberti 1851 is representative of the original. )lI )lI
This video suggests more similarity than difference, see:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FmKrmwrum3Q
Note that the current Uberti 1851 uses a left hand twist consistent with the original and different than what CapandBall reports for his Uberti.
BTW, he also compares an original 1860 to the 1860 Uberti where he can exchange parts, see:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k0wlIyCQJuw
Regards,
Richard
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Hi, re: grip tail.
This is a photo showing grip tails for both Uberti and Pietta 1851s:
(http://i1283.photobucket.com/albums/a549/ssb73q/GripTail.jpg_zpsog0ox44o.jpg) (http://s1283.photobucket.com/user/ssb73q/media/GripTail.jpg_zpsog0ox44o.jpg.html)
The top engraved Uberti was made in 1987
The next down Uberti was made in 2015
The bottom Pietta was made in 2014
The difference is obvious.
Regards,
Richard
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Thanks, Richard, for that comparison.
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The Pietta tail has a close relative in C.W. era revolvers but it wasn't on a Colt. It was a actually on a Remington which Pietta doesn't do.
(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y269/rebel727/CWSTUFF/pistols_zps9ayafva6.jpg) (http://s7.photobucket.com/user/rebel727/media/CWSTUFF/pistols_zps9ayafva6.jpg.html)
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Well, folks, here we be.
I scanned these photographs from Nathan L. Swayze's " '51 Colt Navies", cropped the pages to only include photograph information, and resized the photos to fit the forum pages. (There should be no copyright infringement as I am not doing this for financial gain and for educational purposes only.) This treatise contains far more information than presented here (such as five different trigger guards, different barrels, et al) and I would urge anyone seeking more information to purchase this out-of-print book. I got mine on Amazon last year for ~$75.
I think the first photo says it all concerning the "tail/no tail" authenticity argument as concerns original pistols vs the modern replicas, especially Pietta, (although Pietta has combined the short curve frontstrap with their version of a backstrap to create their signature design). My 2015 G&G shows that they may be changing their design practices.
Peruse further. In the end, I am convinced that there is no "true" trigger guard/backstrap/wood combination when it comes to Colt originals and when it comes to "accurate" replicas. I'm sure many will disagree.
Enjoy and have a good weekend.
Jim
(http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii274/sourdoughjim/1851%20Colt%20Navy%20001_zpstaiwbf2v.jpg)
(http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii274/sourdoughjim/1851%20Colt%20Navy%20002_zpsfzsrqybw.jpg)
(http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii274/sourdoughjim/1851%20Colt%20Navy%20003_zpsk4croa4b.jpg)
(http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii274/sourdoughjim/1851%20Colt%20Navy%20004_zps5tlkrq83.jpg)
(http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii274/sourdoughjim/1851%20Colt%20Navy%20005_zps5zpziwoy.jpg)
(http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii274/sourdoughjim/1851%20Colt%20Navy%20006_zpsauyzwday.jpg)
(http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii274/sourdoughjim/1851%20Colt%20Navy%20007_zpscq8gdah5.jpg)
(http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii274/sourdoughjim/1851%20Colt%20Navy%20008_zps25t0svz2.jpg)
(http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii274/sourdoughjim/1851%20Colt%20Navy%20009_zps8mhyzutk.jpg)
(http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii274/sourdoughjim/1851%20Colt%20Navy%20010_zpsjpxepbgv.jpg)
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To add to the comparison, (I think most of you folks have seen this) here is a 2014 [CM] Pietta Navy .36 with a 2015 [CN] Pietta G&G for grip comparison. Some of you have stated that the 1851 Navy grip is thick in the wrist. Well the G&G is thicker in the wrist, has a different backstrap curve, and a different frontstrap curve.
Are we having fun, yet? ;)
(http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii274/sourdoughjim/1851_GampG%20008_zps8srvxzph.jpg)
Jim
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I've handled examples of most of those but none of them have the exaggerated bell bottom that Pietta's do. The new style Pietta grips come closer but it seems as if they went a little too far. I like the new style better at any rate.
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I've handled examples of most of those
You have handled examples of most of those?...
You posted after I posted about the original Colts.
Are you talking about the original type Colts I posted? If so, you are a lucky guy. And, your handling conclusion would be?
Jim
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I've handled examples of most of those
You have handled examples of most of those?...
You posted after I posted about the original Colts.
Are you talking about the original type Colts I posted? If so, you are a lucky guy. And, your handling conclusion would be?
Jim
Yeah, I used to frequent C.W. relic shows and have handled many, many different original C.W. weapons. I was also a frequent customer of Rafe and Lori Eledge at Shiloh Relics in TN. In case you don't know, Rafe was an appraiser for Antiques Roadshow. I'm no expert on them however and it's been along time since I handled one. I think the last time I handled an original C&B Colt was in 98. I never got into the subtle differences between the models. I collected anything and everything and knew a little bit about most of it but not a lot about any of it. As I recall it was more a feeling of awe for me to handle one than any real noticeable difference between original and repro. There's a difference between a repro and original Remington that is noticeable. The trigger guard is further away from your knuckles on an original.
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The original Colt's and Remingtons that I have handled felt different in my hand than the replicas too. A tiny bit smaller overall with a "feel" that is hard to describe.
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Hi sourdough, there, now you have gone and done it. You destroyed my closely held belief that Uberti Colts are representative of the original revolvers. Therefore, since I am going to the dump to recycle cans and bottles this morning, I will also throw all my disgusting faux Colt Uberti's in the recycle bin. Goodbye Uberti Colts forever!!
)lI )lI )lI )lI )lI )lI )lI )lI )lI )lI )lI )lI )lI )lI )lI )lI )lI )lI )lI )lI )lI )lI )lI )lI )lI )lI )lI )lI
Regards,
Richard
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Hi sourdough, there, now you have gone and done it. You destroyed my closely held belief that Uberti Colts are representative of the original revolvers. Therefore, since I am going to the dump to recycle cans and bottles this morning, I will also throw all my disgusting faux Colt Uberti's in the recycle bin. Goodbye Uberti Colts forever!!
)lI )lI )lI )lI )lI )lI )lI )lI )lI )lI )lI )lI )lI )lI )lI )lI )lI )lI )lI )lI )lI )lI )lI )lI )lI )lI )lI )lI
Regards,
Richard
Just send them to me and I'll dispose of them properly. ;)
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Hi Hawg, the manager of the recycle station was shocked seeing me dump all those Uberti Colt revolvers into the recycle bin. He ran over and pulled out an Uberti 1851 out of the scrap, but then quickly threw it back in saying "oh, that's just an Uberti replica where it doesn't represent an actual 1851 Colt."
All those ugly Uberti Colt impostors are now history!
;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;)
Oh, one more note: Before I got rid of all those Uberti's, I decided to shoot that new Uberti 1851 using the Howell 38 Colt/38 Special conversion cylinder. Fifty shots were fired with excellent results, 2 to 2-1/2" groups from 25yds. Using the 148gr Magnus bullet and 2.7gr Trailboss loading grouped well. The new Uberti 1851 however did group ~10" high @ 25yds. A sight adjustment will be required. I think that the better accuracy from this new Uberti 1851 compared to the engraved Uberti 1851 is the solid conversion cylinder lockup compared to the sloppy lockup of the engraved 1851.
Regards,
Richard
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Hi, while talking about 1851 sights, I did notice a difference between the Pietta and Uberti front sight. The Pietta front sight is more pointed than the Uberti where accurate sighting of the Pietta is easier than the Uberti 1851. Both revolver types do require lowering the rear sight slot if one ever expects to have the poi = poa.
Regards,
Richard
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Hi, while talking about 1851 sights, I did notice a difference between the Pietta and Uberti front sight. The Pietta front sight is more pointed than the Uberti where accurate sighting of the Pietta is easier than the Uberti 1851. Both revolver types do require lowering the rear sight slot if one ever expects to have the poi = poa.
Regards,
Richard
Nobody expects that out of any Colt..... L@J
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My Pietta 51 could stand to shoot a little lower but a 6 o'clock hold puts them in the top of the black from 20-25 yards.
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Not an 1851 Navy, but what to make of the grips on this one from an ad in the Sept. 12, 1863 issue of Harper's Weekly?
I dimly recall reading that Schuyler, Hartley & Graham were Colt's distributers or agents at the time period.
(http://i64.tinypic.com/2ic8y2p.jpg)
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Not much telling. There were a lot of folks making Colt knockoffs back in the day.
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Not an 1851 Navy, but what to make of the grips on this one from an ad in the Sept. 12, 1863 issue of Harper's Weekly?
I dimly recall reading that Schuyler, Hartley & Graham were Colt's distributers or agents at the time period.
(http://i64.tinypic.com/2ic8y2p.jpg)
It is just an inept artist's conception. Look at the hammer position. It is neither in the hammer down nor half-cock position.
If one peruses various newspaper articles of that time period, one will find very inaccurate illustrations.
Take it with many grains of salt.
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I agree, but it is actually a very well executed steel engraving (if not accurate) as the original print is only 2 inches wide.
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Hi sourdough, there, now you have gone and done it. You destroyed my closely held belief that Uberti Colts are representative of the original revolvers. Therefore, since I am going to the dump to recycle cans and bottles this morning, I will also throw all my disgusting faux Colt Uberti's in the recycle bin. Goodbye Uberti Colts forever!!
)lI
Regards,
Richard
Well, since I posted about the differences, Hawg plays second fiddle to me. I'll gladly accept any of your pistols, "correct" or not. &\?
All in all, I just wanted to show that some of the urban legends don't hold up. To wit, I am a big fan of 1851 platform "fantasy" pistols. I don't have any qualms about mixing and matching parts to create what the original Colt or Confederate manufacturers never did. That is a luxury that we in the 21st century have as a reminiscent afterthought and availability of interchangeable CNC parts. I am somewhat of a purist insofar as books/study are concerned, and I use those as tools to produce (with replicas) similar pistols, but I also like to fantasize, and that is an anathema to some folks.
I hope you folks liked my post concerning Swayze's photos. If anyone can quote from some other treatise, I would welcome any information about that for my library.
Regards,
Jim
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Well, since I posted about the differences, Hawg plays second fiddle to me.
How so?
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sourdough, great post on original '51's.
Bishop said, "The original Colt's and Remingtons that I have handled felt different in my hand than the replicas too. A tiny bit smaller overall with a "feel" that is hard to describe."
The Gregorelli & Uberti 1851 Navy I have is lighter in weight and has a smaller diameter barrel and narrower frame than my Colt 2nd Gen 1851 Navy. This GU is an early one with no proofmarks, serial # 1967. I've not handled any Uberti '51's but I think they are basically the same dimensions as a Colt 2nd Gen, which would mean at some point Uberti totally changed their dimensions from the early GU's.
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Sounds like your Gregorelli & Uberti may actually be closer to the originals than even the 2nd Gen Colt's. I wonder if Uberti changed the dimensions to prevent counterfeiting which was a real concern among collectors in the 1960s. Colt made the early C series 2nd gen square back trigger guards with serial numbers that wouldn't match up with original 1851s.
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I don't know this but the early ones may have been forged. The dimensions would have gotten bigger when they went to cast.
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Well, since I posted about the differences, Hawg plays second fiddle to me.
How so?
Hawg, only to address the fact that info I posted info from trusted author(s).
That is NOT to say that your posts/opinions are not valued. Actually, it is just the opposite.
If an apology is required, I am here to do so. I do not want to get into a p match with good compadres.
Jim
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Deleted. Double post.
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Well, since I posted about the differences, Hawg plays second fiddle to me.
How so?
Hawg, only to address the fact that info I posted info from trusted author(s).
That is NOT to say that your posts/opinions are not valued. Actually, it is just the opposite.
If an apology is required, I am here to do so. I do not want to get into a p match with good compadres.
Jim
No apology required, I just didn't understand what you meant by it.
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I am going to copy and paste what I found about original Colt 1851 revolvers, originally written by Nathan Swayze.
1. There are five different barrel addresses
2. There are three different types of front sights
3. There are two thicknesses of the loading lever catch under the muzzle end of the barrel.
4. There are three different types of loading notch in the barrel lug.
5. There are two thicknesses of the barrel lug.
6. There are three types of frames.
7. There are two sizes of cylinder pins.
8. There are two different designs of knurling on the hammer spur.
9. There are two types of back straps.
10. There are four shapes of trigger guards.
11. There are three types of wood grips.
12. There are two styles of serial number stampings.
13. Some of the loading lever rammer screws enter from the left, and some from the right.
14. Orrnsby's signature appears on some of the cylinders and not on others.
15. The Colt patent stamping is in three different locations.
16. The "36 Cal." stamping appears on some of the trigger guards and not on others.
17. Some of the triggers are short, and some are long.
18. Some of the release catches on the fore end of the loading lever are hurled, and others are not.
(Back to my thoughts)
In the originals, that makes up a great challenge to collect one specimen of each. I have handled a lot of originals and never paid any attention to the variations unless they were obvious or pointed out to me.
Modern replica's with variations are a wonderful chance to have a modest investment in a good collection.
Kevin
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Modern replica's with variations are a wonderful chance to have a modest investment in a good collection.
Kevin
Hi Kevin, good comment! IMO either the Pietta's or Uberti's are good current choices. I have different 1911s, some Colt, some Springfield, and ParaOrdnance, however, I still call them all 1911s.
To paraphrase; "an 1851 Colt by any other name is still an 1851."
Regards,
Richard
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Kevin,
Thanks for posting that list. That should give some folks a bit of pause when considering which replica 1851 is correct. ;)
However, I am going to add to the confusion and use Swayze's book as affirmation:
I am going to copy and paste what I found about original Colt 1851 revolvers, originally written by Nathan Swayze.
7. There are two sizes of cylinder pins.
True, but the 1st Model had the wedge over the wedge screw, whereas the cylinder pin had a notch as opposed to a slot. Another variation. (pg 29, Plate 2).
9. There are two types of back straps.
There are four types of backstraps, two brass and two iron (pgs 134-135, Plate 82).
10. There are four shapes of trigger guards.
There are five differently shaped trigger guards (one squareback brass, 4 various round/oval configurations, some being either brass or iron ) (pgs. 135-137, Plate 83).
14. Ormsby's signature appears on some of the cylinders and not on others.
I have read that the die used to roll-stamp the cylinders wore out to the point that Ormsby's sig (being shallow) did not imprint. I have no cite on hand.
(Back to my thoughts)
In the originals, that makes up a great challenge to collect one specimen of each. I have handled a lot of originals and never paid any attention to the variations unless they were obvious or pointed out to me.
Modern replica's with variations are a wonderful chance to have a modest investment in a good collection.
Kevin
You are one of the people I always rely upon for my info.
Thanks again, Kevin.
Jim
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Jim,
The list I pasted was copied from a speech given by Swayze to the Colt Society, date unknown. I am also not aware if the book he wrote was done before or after the speech. Odds are, after, as he had a bunch more information in the book.
I like researching with books rather than the internet. Books were written and then fact checked prior to publishing. Not all were perfect but they were a lot better than what passes for research now. Anyone can write something online and in a week will be quoted as an expert. No checking other than "...I read it on the internet... "
Kevin,
You are one of the people I always rely upon for my info.
Thanks again, Kevin.
Jim
I am humbled. Thank you.
Kevin
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The list I pasted was copied from a speech given by Swayze to the Colt Society, date unknown. I am also not aware if the book he wrote was done before or after the speech. Odds are, after, as he had a bunch more information in the book.
Swayze gave a speech on the topic of 1851 Navies during the Fall 1970 meeting of the American Society of Arms Collectors in Houston. It was then published in their Spring 1971 bulletin, and can be downloaded from their site : http://americansocietyofarmscollectors.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/B023_Swayze.pdf
The book is copyrighted 1967.
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Kevin,
You are one of the people I always rely upon for my info.
Thanks again, Kevin.
Jim
I am humbled. Thank you.
Kevin
OTOH, I don't listen to a word you say, Kevin.
(jk...!)
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Well gents, this has and will be one of the best conversations I have read.
I confess , my attention span is short and I have a need to read equally short presented details to get it.
The fact that you all are shooters of the replicas ,and some originals I'm sure ,adds to the glue that
binds.
Thanks for the fun.
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Here are a Pietta 1851 (Top) and a Colt 2nd Gen 1851 (Bottom)...
The grips are obviously shaped different, but there are some other differences.
How many can you see?
(http://i1282.photobucket.com/albums/a523/electricminer/IMG_1238-wp_zpse1mywtaw.jpg)
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I stopped counting after 6. ???
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1) Frame size
2) Trigger guard shape (squareback)
3) Loading cutout
4) Front sight
5) Loading lever shape
6) Grip size/shape
7) Forcing cone shape
8) Hammer spur shape
9) Distance between muzzle and LL catch
10) Screw head for loading ram is on opposite side
What'd I miss? L@J
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That's like comparing Pietta and Uberti. (7+" Oh, it is. ($!
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Not quite. The original castings for the early 2nd gens came from Uberti, through Navy Arms. They were then reworked and finished at the Colt factory in Hartford. So, if you compare a Colt 2nd Gen and an Uberti of the same time period, they won't match, either.
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I am more than impressed that you all caught those dis-similariities. I was waiting for the rammer screw entering from the right, but the Captain caught it.
You guys are getting GOOD!
Jim
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1) Frame size
2) Trigger guard shape (squareback)
3) Loading cutout
4) Front sight
5) Loading lever shape
6) Grip size/shape
7) Forcing cone shape
8) Hammer spur shape
9) Distance between muzzle and LL catch
10) Screw head for loading ram is on opposite side
What'd I miss? L@J
That's most of what you can tell from that picture. Not apparent is that the shape of the loading lever catch is different. The Pietta is more rounded, and the Colt is more triangular.
You can see that in this photo...
(http://i1282.photobucket.com/albums/a523/electricminer/IMG_1244-small_zpszqrrrgwb.jpg)
The difference in grip size is readily apparent in this picture...
(http://i1282.photobucket.com/albums/a523/electricminer/IMG_1243-small_zpszrb9xobo.jpg)
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Insofar as the grip size and backstrap/trigger guard, one must take into consideration the date code. The newer Pietta G&G (2015 [CN]) does not have the Pietta "tail" but is thicker at the wrist than the "tail" models. It also has a different curve to the TG frontstrap than the Pietta "tail" models so the newer trigger guard will not mate with the older "tail" model backstraps and wood.
Jim
(http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii274/sourdoughjim/1851_GampG%20008_zps8srvxzph.jpg)
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Kevin,
You are one of the people I always rely upon for my info.
Thanks again, Kevin.
Jim
I am humbled. Thank you.
Kevin
OTOH, I don't listen to a word you say, Kevin.
(jerk...!)
Sorry, I didn't hear what you were saying.
And I fixed your signature for you.
Kevin
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(7+"
Good shooting, Kev! :-*
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It almost appears Pietta has addressed the "bell-bottom tail" issue in this photo.
http://www.cabelas.com/product/shooting/firearms/black-powder-firearms/black-powder-revolvers%7C/pc/104792580/c/553829580/sc/571854780/i/567338580/pietta-model-1851-navy-yank-36-caliber-black-powder-revolver/705021.uts?destination=%2Fcatalog%2Fbrowse%2Fblack-powder-revolvers%2F_%2FN-1115735%2FNs-CATEGORY_SEQ_567338580
Anyone purchased one lately to confirm?
I am going back to the OP's (Captain's 2nd post) looking for observations. I'm sure he is as well.
Has anyone here purchased (or seen in real life) a Pietta 1851 Navy steel (date code [CP]: 2016) that does NOT have the proverbial Pietta "tail"? I purchased a Pietta G&G ([CN] 2015) that has somewhat of a "correct" Colt Navy grip (more so than the "tail" but still incorrect as the "historically" correct grip shape, whatever that may be).
If so, I would love to see a pic of that pistol to include the date code.
I want one. With that pistol, I can create in .36 cal. (Pietta logo style) a L&R, a S&G, a G&G, and a 3rd Model 1851 Colt. I already have my precious 1851 Navy 2nd Model Squareback, but with the "tail". (I like it as it fits the hand well.)
Thanks in advance,
Jim
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I have not purchased one but here is a link to a 2015 production that looks to me like it does not have the tail. For the record, I have no association with the seller.
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=548437707
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Thanks for the link. It does, indeed, appear to be a non-tail grip, but the seller's pictures showing the barrel lug marking "CIP" is a proof mark, and the pictures do not show a manufacture date. I will investigate further.
Again, thanks for the link.
Jim
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Look again. Pic #9 clearly shows a date code of CN in a square box on the right side of the frame. Along with proof marks.
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Look again. Pic #9 clearly shows a date code of CN in a square box on the right side of the frame. Along with proof marks.
You are exactly correct. I missed that, sir. Thank you for the correction. I am now on the path for one of these babies.
On the hunt for a better price...
Jim
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I figured it might end your search if the right evidence were presented. Glad you don't have to look any further for proof.
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I am finding this one somewhat intriguing....
http://www.dixiegunworks.com/product_info.php?cPath=22_92_187_189&products_id=14047
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1568/25600588025_040aa9bca4_z.jpg)
The tail would have to go, but it's a squareback TG model.
Kirk...
I bought one of those from Dixie in March... Liked it so much I now have two!
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Hi Suntiger, jump on over to the "Welcome Wagon" and tell us a few things about yourself. How did you find this Great Forum?
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When I realized I had a Colt Navy problem, I started googling to see if there were others... Apparent I am not alone...
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No sir, you are not. It gets worse before it gets better, though.
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Shot them both yesterday ... It was a great day in Tallahassee... Tried to attach a picture but it says my photo is too big? Glad the site is available again!
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Shot them both yesterday ... It was a great day in Tallahassee... Tried to attach a picture but it says my photo is too big? Glad the site is available again!
Photo size limit is 640X480 pixels.
If you copy and paste the image code into the text box it works much better than trying to upload as an attachment.
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Being an "analog guy in a digital world" I have no idea how to do that from the photo album on my I phone... Maybe that's why I like the navies ... I understand mechanical things better than electronic!
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Being an "analog guy in a digital world" I have no idea how to do that from the photo album on my I phone... Maybe that's why I like the navies ... I understand mechanical things better than electronic!
If you are interested, let me know. I can PM instructions
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Kirk
That would be much appreciated !
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Well I have been to the range twice this weekend... I am sure I can quit whenever I want to!
On the serious side, I think one of the great thing about my 2 Navy Colts is the time spent at the range seems a little more relaxed.. You can't rush it... And then there is the plus that they just shoot so well
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Being an "analog guy in a digital world" I have no idea how to do that from the photo album on my I phone... Maybe that's why I like the navies ... I understand mechanical things better than electronic!
If you are interested, let me know. I can PM instructions
I guess I will need the instructions too. I too am a phone-only user, no computer, so all my pics are from my phones library... not sure how I can get an image code from there.
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Suntiger I saw pictures of your Pietta's over at the other forum. I think they look really nice! I would like to hear more about how they shoot. What distance you're shooting at, handheld or from a rest, what size groups and do they shoot to point of aim? What kind of loads are you using? Do they both shoot the same or are there differences?
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First off, gents...you need an off-device photo hosting site. I use Flickr these days. The app came free with my phone. You can Google "Flickr" and choose the app for whatever you are using; phone, tablet, laptop etc. I take photos with my phone, press "send" and off they go to my online photo album within seconds. There are other sites as well like Image Shack, Tinypic, Shutterfly, and Photobucket; choose the one you like best. I stopped using Photobucket due to all the pop-ups and spam email they flood you with. None of that crap on Flickr.
Once you've chosen an online photo hosting site and saved your photos to an online album, I will walk you through getting the pics over here in full-screen living color. Let me know....
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First off, gents...you need an off-device photo hosting site. Photobucket; choose the one you like best. I stopped using Photobucket due to all the pop-ups and spam email they flood you with. None of that crap on Flickr.
Well, I don't own any of ya'alls fancy phones, don't want one (my wife has one but I don't know any more about it other than how to answer an incoming call). I'm pretty much an analog guy, also, but I do have an old desktop computer and use Photobucket to post my pics, and have never had the problems that you have encountered.
Maybe all of the pop-ups and spam you get is due to the FREE app you are using? Hmmm... Always a price to pay one way or another.
Just sayin'...
Jim
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When I realized I had a Colt Navy problem, I started googling to see if there were others... Apparent I am not alone...
Yeah, you and I both have an 1851 Navy problem, but my mind drifts to other copies, also.
Both are fairly new Piettas; I bought the G&G mostly for the barrel, but also for the only brasser .36 I will probably ever own. The parts interchange well between the 1851 Navy 2nd Model Squareback, and when Christmas comes around in several months, I will have enough saved to buy a Cabela's Pietta 1851 Navy steel frame octagonal barrel in order to create 5 historical pistols: 1851 Navy 2nd Model Squareback TG (pictured), 1851 Navy 3rd Model round TG, Griswold & Gunnison (pictured), Leech & Rigdon, Schneider & Glassick, and several fantasy 1851 pistols, to include my favorite that Colt never produced: an 1851 Navy Dragoon Squareback TG in .36 caliber. It is a L&R with a SB TG.
I bought the Pietta 1851 Navy steel with a round TG, but ordered and bought a SB TG from Taylor's. It took about 2 months to get it, but it fit perfectly. It is there to stay, forever.
The pic also shows the difference between the Pietta "tail" grip with the somewhat more "conventional" Navy grip. It has a very thick wrist, even compared to the "tail" grip and I have posted before as to how many grip styles and frame configurations the original Colts had in this model alone.
I will do so again if the mods allow it. I cannot find the link at this time.
(http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii274/sourdoughjim/1851_GampG%20008_zps8srvxzph.jpg)
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Lonesome
They shoot about identically... If I aim at the bottom of that abdominal "oblong spheroid" on the body of a silhouette target , at 25 yards , I will hit in the center area shooting standing w 2 hand grip.. W respectible grouping .. Have probably put around 300 rounds between the pair using the 15 or 25 yard ranges depending on what's available.. All I can say is that I am better with a Navy than I am with my Commander or Woodsman.. Really couldn't be happier with them.... I have been using a flask with an 17 grain measure and lubed wads with .375 Hornady balls.
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Sourdough
I had no idea how many combinations there were until I came across this:
http://americansocietyofarmscollectors.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/B023_Swayze.pdf
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Sourdough
I had no idea how many combinations there were until I came across this:
http://americansocietyofarmscollectors.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/B023_Swayze.pdf
I have that same .pdf file.
That just scratches the surface. I have his book, and if you really want an eye-opener, purchase it: " '51 Colt Navies". Out of print and probably not cheap, but well worth the money. I think I bought mine last year for about $70. :o
Good luck, sir.
Jim
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Well , now I've got a book to look for👍
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Well, I don't own any of ya'alls fancy phones, don't want one (my wife has one but I don't know any more about it other than how to answer an incoming call). I'm pretty much an analog guy, also, but I do have an old desktop computer and use Photobucket to post my pics, and have never had the problems that you have encountered.
Maybe all of the pop-ups and spam you get is due to the FREE app you are using? Hmmm... Always a price to pay one way or another.
Just sayin'...
Jim
No, the free app was for Flickr. No ads or pop-ups with that. They are all with Photobucket, which is why I don't use it any more.
That being said, if you have a Photobucket account, you can start posting full size pics here on the forum any time you are ready.
Read this link:
http://blackpowdersmoke.com/colt/index.php?topic=97.0
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Yes I have the free version of photobucket, it's slow due to all the ads. I hear if you have the pay version it runs faster because you don't get all the ads. Anyway, click on your picture in your photobucket library. When your picture comes up there should be a box with 4 sections on the right hand side of the screen. Right click on the appropriate section(I believe it's the second from the bottom) then go back to your post and left click and a box will come down, then right click on "paste" and the picture(in text form) will be in your post. The just click on preview to make sure you did it right.
Suntiger, thanks for the report. I really want to get one of those Pietta Navy's now.
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Yes I have the free version of photobucket, it's slow due to all the ads. I hear if you have the pay version it runs faster because you don't get all the ads. Anyway, click on your picture in your photobucket library. When your picture comes up there should be a box with 4 sections on the right hand side of the screen. Right click on the appropriate section(I believe it's the second from the bottom) then go back to your post and left click and a box will come down, then right click on "paste" and the picture(in text form) will be in your post. The just click on preview to make sure you did it right.
Suntiger, thanks for the report. I really want to get one of those Pietta Navy's now.
Find your pic and click share. Left click the bottom code, the IMG code. Right click in the forum text box and paste it in with your message and the pic will be there.
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Hi, Cabelas has their .44 Pietta 1851 on sale for $149.99 with free shipping. See:
http://www.cabelas.com/product/pietta-model-1851-confederate-navy-44-caliber-black-powder-revolver/740536.uts?Ntk=AllProducts&searchPath=%2Fcatalog%2Fsearch.cmd%3Fform_state%3DsearchForm%26N%3D0%26fsch%3Dtrue%26Ntk%3DAllProducts%26Ntt%3D210086%26x%3D10%26y%3D6%26WTz_l%3DHeader%253BSearch-All%252BProducts&Ntt=210086
I ordered one to turn this Italian fantasy revolver into a pimp's special with nickel and copper plating. Worst case it can be thrown in the trash after experimenting what can be done on a Pimp's showgun. &\? &\? &\?
Regards,
Richard
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Richard,
You ARE a glutton for punishment. You know that, right?
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Richard,
You ARE a glutton for punishment. You know that, right?
^^^^^ +1
What he said! &\?
You must show us the results when you are finished with it (maybe in more ways than one ;) ).
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Hi Kirk, if you are willing to wait, you should be able to buy a Pietta 1851 on sale from Cabelas, ~$170.
&\? &\? &\?
Regards,
Richard
Two months ago going on sale ? Did I miss it ? I want one but ther $249
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Hi Hewy, the economy is currently soft, I expect to see some good BP revolver deals from Cabelas soon. First come the brasser sales, next will come the steel framed. The Captain thinks that BP revolvers sales will soon decrease because of saturation. I disagree, after you own the first BP revolver, you need to own ten or twenty more.
Just keep watching Cabelas for sales.
Regards,
Richard
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Richard, still waiting for you to tip me off on that Pietta Navy sale...... L@J
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Hey maybe we can give Cabelas a little push, how many from this forum alone
will buy now......just saying L@J
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Well, being on SS I am not ready to "push" as I don't have the money until Christmas for a Pietta 1851 Navy steel roundback TG to complete my 3 pistol mix-and-match collection.
You guys do all you can until then to get a sale, but I think Cabela's corporate will just stick to their game plan.
Has anyone heard about the proposed/supposed acquisition of Cabela's by Bass Pro Shops?
Interested...
Jim
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Well, being on SS I am not ready to "push" as I don't have the money until Christmas for a Pietta 1851 Navy steel roundback TG to complete my 3 pistol mix-and-match collection.
You guys do all you can until then to get a sale, but I think Cabela's corporate will just stick to their game plan.
Has anyone heard about the proposed/supposed acquisition of Cabela's by Bass Pro Shops?
Interested...
Jim
I quized a sales person several months ago, she told me it was an outside rumor and nothing else.
The comapny also talked to emloyees and refuted the rumor.
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Good to know. I would hate to see a company like Cabela's go under or get bought out by a mega-company like Bass Pro. My father and I have bought from Cabela's since the 60's in Sidney. I have visited a newly opened Bass Pro shop here in Lakewood WA and it was nothing but glitz, especially the damn boats. When I inquired about BP guns, they had no clue and said they would not have any for 6 months.
Jim
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Good to know. I would hate to see a company like Cabela's go under or get bought out by a mega-company like Bass Pro. My father and I have bought from Cabela's since the 60's in Sidney. I have visited a newly opened Bass Pro shop here in Lakewood WA and it was nothing but glitz, especially the damn boats. When I inquired about BP guns, they had no clue and said they would not have any for 6 months.
Jim
We have a big Bass Pro shop near by, your right lots of boats and 4 wheelers.
I do like to go there just to hang out, nice store. Black powder items hardly nothing.
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Hey maybe we can give Cabelas a little push, how many from this forum alone
will buy now......just saying L@J
Ain't goin to brag, nottin like thet )lI the 1851 Yank just went on sale today .
Ya see it was my birthday
yesterday and I needed to get me a gift.............. (7&
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Happy Birthday, Hewy!
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Yep, a Happy B-Day to you!
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Happy birthday, bud. Its good you ordered when you did cause by today (Sunday morning) the sale was off. I got up this AM planning on placing an order
too late.
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Happy birthday, bud. Its good you ordered when you did cause by today (Sunday morning) the sale was off. I got up this AM planning on placing an order
too late.
Ya Cabelas knew I wanted one. So made a sale price for my B day.
I hope a couple of guys got in on it . L@J
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I'll get in on the sale around Turkey Day or Christmas.
My budget says I am good to go about that time. &\?
In the meantime I have to pay property taxes, home insurance, vehicle insurance, flood insurance, and all the utility bills all on SS.
Not complaining, per se, but that leaves little mad money for toys.
Hewy, when you get it you must have to let guys like me know about the grip/backstrap/TG, with pictures, please!
It's a mix and match just for pictures using 3 Pietta pistols on my part.
I assume it's a 2016 model. No tail? I really want to create a L&R repro, even with all of the Italian markings, using the barrel/load lever from my G&G, and the Pietta tail ain't gonna do it. I really like my Pietta 1851 Navy .36 2nd Model "tail" but I am looking for a different look for the Leech and Rigdon.
I don't have the money that Hawg, Fingers, CaptKirk, and others have. Wish I did and wish I had gotten into this genre sooner. Alas and alack, I am where I am.
I rely on all of you folks to enlighten/educate me when it comes to this subject.
Thanks a bunch,
Jim
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I don't have the money that Hawg, Fingers, CaptKirk, and others have. Wish I did and wish I had gotten into this genre sooner. Alas and alack, I am where I am.
I dunno who's been lying to you. I used to have some money in another time long ago but I haven't worked since Oct. and just got my disability approved a few weeks ago. I got five months of SSI back pay and most of that went to car repairs and bills. I haven't even gotten my first disability check yet. I'm broker than a 100 year old mud fence.
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sourdough, Hawg and all.
We are all in the hobby that we like and enjoy. Do what we do with what we got.
Your time is your time, mine is mine. No regrets. That will only get you down.
The way I fiqure, particularly here, we are brothers at arms and nobody I mean nobody will change or
take that away from us.
I share what I can, you share what you can........ it's ALL GOOD.
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Good post, Hewy. I did not mean to offend, and I did not mean anything envious (well, maybe...).
Thank you, sir!
Jim
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I wasn't trying to pomouth, I was just sayin. I had my time and I do have some nice stuff. I wish I had more (don't we all?)but I don't begrudge anybody anything. Yeah envious sometimes but hey, who isn't? Some of y'all have stuff I drool over and I know I have a few things some of y'all drool over so it's all good. (7&
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Well, crap.
I missed the boat.
I was gonna order one tomorrow at that price...not that I'm 'zactly rolling in dough either, but I have a $25.00 Cabela's gift card in my wallet, and with free shipping...
Yeah.
Not that I really need another BP gun. I have too many already, but I really want a high quality Navy. I can wait. And thanks, Hewy, for the heads-up. It'll come around again.
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I got this 1851 Pietta from Cabelas in 1996 [BH] for $149.99 and only dressed the full cock hammer sear and smoothed around a bit. The thing is running great these twenty years later. Had it out last month and the trigger pull is smooth and even with a crisp drop and very accurate. Great fit and finish too.
I recommend the hell out of Piettas. An 1851 Colt speaks for itself. In a class all it's own.
(http://i1165.photobucket.com/albums/q586/GDog09/CANON%20GUN%20PHOTOS/Justinsheltonpotos050.jpg) (http://s1165.photobucket.com/user/GDog09/media/CANON%20GUN%20PHOTOS/Justinsheltonpotos050.jpg.html)
(http://i1165.photobucket.com/albums/q586/GDog09/CANON%20GUN%20PHOTOS/IMG_5465.jpg) (http://s1165.photobucket.com/user/GDog09/media/CANON%20GUN%20PHOTOS/IMG_5465.jpg.html)
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Another great afternoon at the range... Firing a brace of 1851s... I think folks think it's a tad eccentric... But then they seem surprised by the accuracy... At 25 yards they are better than anything else I use .. Pretty amazing for technology that is 160 plus years old..
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At the range today ... A LEO that I work with some saw me and came over to say hi... She had never fired a Navy before , so I invited her to try it... Think she had a blast... It is kind of fun to share this stuff!
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What did she have to say about shooting the Navy? Did she make any observations? How was her accuracy?
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She was amazed by the action/ function.... Solid chest shot ...
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Hi Kirk, if you are willing to wait, you should be able to buy a Pietta 1851 on sale from Cabelas, ~$170.
&\? &\? &\?
Regards,
Richard
Of course. Keep me posted........
Hi Captain, now you have no excuse, Cabelas steel framed Pietta .36 1851, $200. See:
http://www.cabelas.com/product/Pietta-Model-Navy-Yank-Caliber-Black-Powder-Revolver/705021.uts?searchPath=%2Fbrowse.cmd%3FcategoryId%3D734095080%26CQ_search%3Dpietta%26CQ_st%3Db
IMO that sale could be gone in a day or two.
Regards,
Richard
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I've got a couple of Pieta 1851's, couple of Pieta 1851 Londons, a Pietta 1861, and an Uberti 1861. I like the London grips, I think they're probably Army grips. I ground the tails off the two standard Pieta navies, but still prefer the London grips. The action on the Pieta 1851 navy was excellent right out of the box, but the fit of the grips was a bit sloppy. The Uberti 1861 is simply a gem, but I just prefer the look of the 1851, so I'm saving up to buy a couple of 1851 Ubertis. All my navies point well and are excellent shooters, goes without saying. Thing that sucks about all this gun purchasing is that I could have saved all my money and simply bought an original Colt navy which is probably what I really wanted all along. ;)