Colt Country | Home of The Almighty Colt
Black Powder Pistols => Patersons => Topic started by: LonesomePigeon on January 31, 2017, 08:46:21 PM
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These seem to be hard to find in stock so I thought I'd post this. EMF has the Pietta Paterson on sale for $550.
http://www.emf-company.com/store/pc/1836-Texas-Paterson-36-9-531p1823.htm
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And I'm in the middle of moving to a new home.
sigh...
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These seem to be hard to find in stock so I thought I'd post this. EMF has the Pietta Paterson on sale for $550.
http://www.emf-company.com/store/pc/1836-Texas-Paterson-36-9-531p1823.htm
Hi Lonesome, thanks for the heads-up, I ordered one. The price is excellent and it comes with free shipping. &\? &\? &\?
Regards,
Richard
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Awesome Richard! Please post a review when you get it. I am actually close enough that I could drive down there and pick one out but I don't have the money. Maybe if they are in stock a year from now.
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Awesome Richard! Please post a review when you get it. I am actually close enough that I could drive down there and pick one out but I don't have the money. Maybe if they are in stock a year from now.
Hi Lonesome, I don't have the money either, but have been wanting a Paterson for a long time. I'm still wondering how I will tell my wife that I used part of our tax refund for this revolver. Uberti discontinued the Paterson because of minimal sales. I think that the same thing will occur for Pietta. This revolver will be mostly for display. I fully understand that even the original Patersons were problematic revolvers. There are so many parts that need to function perfectly for it to function properly. Of course I will post my review of the Pietta ordered when received.
Regards,
Richard
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Hi, the EMF Company is a strange outfit. I misspoke when I said that shipping was free. After ordering the revolver, EMF sent me an email saying that my order wasn't an order until they called me to verify shipping cost and charge card.
The online status of my order says "pending". Interesting that there was still a pending order for a conversion cylinder from 2012 that I thought I had canceled.
EMF is strange outfit.
Regards,
Richard
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Hi, after a couple of emails EMF is beginning to move on my order. The shipping charge, ground, is $28. That seems a little high, but what can I do.
Their big concern is that I may live in New York City that prohibits shipment of BP revolvers. Also, agreeing to the shipping charge is required. Beats me that they don't know up front what shipping costs would be. EMF may still be living in the past?
Regards,
Richard
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Hi, after a couple of emails EMF is beginning to move on my order. The shipping charge, ground, is $28. That seems a little high, but what can I do.
Their big concern is that I may live in New York City that prohibits shipment of BP revolvers. Also, agreeing to the shipping charge is required. Beats me that they don't know up front what shipping costs would be. EMF may still be living in the past?
Regards,
Richard
Hi Richard -
"real stores" can't afford to eat the entire cost of shipping and handling like Cabelas. Stores that offer "free" or cheap shipping are inevitably
hiding the cost elsewhere - weather markup in that item, or spread across all sales. I can ship a revolver via USPS "flat rate" for ~ $20
but that does not include packing materials, packing it up, or getting it to the PO. .... jest sayin' ....
when Amazon starts sending free gifts over my property boxes delivered by drone, we will be watching intently to see how they farm in the costs of the drones, merchandize loss, insurance, property damage, etc etc.... not to mention the loss of physical jobs of delivery personell.
with no jobs at all except selling rocks to each other, one wonders who exactly will be able to afford to buy the "stuff" .
those of us with well equipped shops, however will have a booming business in fixing "old broke stuff" . Mike116 will do fine making custom leather, and Mad Mike the boomer can print new parts .....
yhs
prfo amravel
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Hi, I ordered a used copy of Paterson Colt Pistol Variations, by Phillips Wilson on eBay, see:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/112287663208?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
Prices for this book are all over the place, but I think this is the book to have if you are interested in the Paterson revolver.
Regards,
Richard
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Hi prof, nice try on rationalizing shipping costs. I checked on the shipping cost recently paid for BP revolvers purchased from Old South Firearms and Dixie Gun Works, ~$17. Old South ships the same day, Dixie the next. I'm still waiting for my order from EMF to be marked ordered. There are different vendor models, IMO EMF's is something out of the past.
That's my story and I'm sticking to it.
Regards,
Richard
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Hi, there has been a lot of discussion on Colt supplying extra cylinders for his revolvers. Most say that extra cylinders are a myth.
I came across this site that suggests that some Patersons came with extra cylinders, see:
http://www.collectorsfirearms.com/colt-paterson/
Give the prices, I suspect that there is sufficient provenance to warrant those prices and prove that extra cylinders were supplied with some Patersons.
What do you think?
Regards,
Richard
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Hi, IMO it is useful to be persistent. After more emails, I learned from EMF that my Pietta Paterson has shipped, UPS tracking suggests arrival Monday.
Looking forward to seeing my new Paterson.
Regards,
Richard
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So are we! &\?
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Hi Kirk, there will be photos when I get the Paterson. When I was doing research on the Paterson from archived threads on this message board I was disappointed that all the photos that scooby posted were gone. I would have loved to see those Paterson photos.
Regards,
Richard
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Hi Kirk, there will be photos when I get the Paterson. When I was doing research on the Paterson from archived threads on this message board I was disappointed that all the photos that scooby posted were gone. I would have loved to see those Paterson photos.
Regards,
Richard
They were some good ones, including disassembled shots.
Another reason I hate Photobucket.
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Hi Kirk, there will be photos when I get the Paterson. When I was doing research on the Paterson from archived threads on this message board I was disappointed that all the photos that scooby posted were gone. I would have loved to see those Paterson photos.
Regards,
Richard
They were some good ones, including disassembled shots.
Another reason I hate Photobucket.
The only reason I can think of that pics from Photobucket are missing on various posts is because they have been deleted from the person's library by the owner of that account. I don't delete from my account and have pics there from at least 5 years ago and I still have 98% of my library/account unused.
The site IS slow from time to time, but it still works for anything I have posted here or on other forums.
Just my $.02 worth.
Jim
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Jim, every time PB does one of it's "updates" any pictures posted pre-update vanish.
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Hi, I ordered a used copy of Paterson Colt Pistol Variations, by Phillips Wilson on eBay, see:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/112287663208?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
Prices for this book are all over the place, but I think this is the book to have if you are interested in the Paterson revolver.
Regards,
Richard
Hi, I just received this book. It is a treasure-trove of information on the Colt Paterson, lots of plates and examples. On extra cylinders, many of the cased Patersons have the extra cylinder, both square back and rounded back cylinders.
I know I will learn a lot about Patersons from this book. &\? &\?
Regards,
Richard
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Hi, we tend to think of metallurgy problems only affected the Colt Walker. No so, the book documents a number of Paterson cylinder and barrel failures. One military command even withdrew use of the Patterson reporting a number of problems.
Most of the problems occurred from Patersons manufactured by Ehlers during the Colt bankruptcy where inventory parts were assembled, some with different serial number parts. Seems there was little if any quality control.
It amazed me to see a plate of a Patterson with serial number 1 that is a .54 caliber revolver.
Regards,
Richard
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The old Paterson pics would have been on the old account and surely long gone now.
I saved these photos some years ago but only labeled them Paterson. Looks like Scooby work to me, that or some other skilled photographer member.
(http://i1165.photobucket.com/albums/q586/GDog09/Posting%20to%20Gun%20Sites/Paterson%20scooby%20%20Capture.png) (http://s1165.photobucket.com/user/GDog09/media/Posting%20to%20Gun%20Sites/Paterson%20scooby%20%20Capture.png.html)
(http://i1165.photobucket.com/albums/q586/GDog09/Posting%20to%20Gun%20Sites/Paterson%20Scooby%202%20Capture.png) (http://s1165.photobucket.com/user/GDog09/media/Posting%20to%20Gun%20Sites/Paterson%20Scooby%202%20Capture.png.html)
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Pretty sure that is Scooby's handiwork.
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Hi, the new Pietta Paterson just came in the door. The fit and finish is excellent. There are a few things I already learned about this revolver. The cylinder/barrel gap is 0.002". It was made in 2015 and the arbor is the same diameter of the Pietta 1851. The hammer spring is very strong and I intend on buying a new spring to grind down to a more acceptable hammer pull. One thing that did surprise me is that there is no forcing cone on the rear of the barrel and I need to do some research if adding a forcing cone is advisable. The bolt does drop before the cylinder bolt hole and produces a small scratch before the hole. There is no bolt lead-in like with the 1851/1860 cylinders. Maybe a little polish on the bolt will minimize cylinder wear?
Photos tomorrow.
Regards,
Richard
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Hi, the new Pietta Paterson photos:
(http://farm1.staticflickr.com/941/29007927957_bc41bc1cca_b.jpg)
(http://farm1.staticflickr.com/859/30077010688_ee0322ca16_b.jpg)
Regards,
Richard
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Hi, on further investigation, the Pietta Patterson made in 2015 has a short arbor, ~1/8" short. Pietta had been producing other BP models with correct arbor length so this was a surprise. I will add a brass extension piece to the arbor to correctly size the cylinder/barrel gap.
Regards,
Richard
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Man, that is so sweet!
You aren't helping me any, dude...
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Looks great Richard, glad to hear everything is order except the arbor length. Hope the snow melts so you can get out and shoot it soon.
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For comparison, here is mine - a Uberti dated 1989.
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The old Paterson pics would have been on the old account and surely long gone now.
I saved these photos some years ago but only labeled them Paterson. Looks like Scooby work to me, that or some other skilled photographer member.
(http://i1165.photobucket.com/albums/q586/GDog09/Posting%20to%20Gun%20Sites/Paterson%20scooby%20%20Capture.png) (http://s1165.photobucket.com/user/GDog09/media/Posting%20to%20Gun%20Sites/Paterson%20scooby%20%20Capture.png.html)
(http://i1165.photobucket.com/albums/q586/GDog09/Posting%20to%20Gun%20Sites/Paterson%20Scooby%202%20Capture.png) (http://s1165.photobucket.com/user/GDog09/media/Posting%20to%20Gun%20Sites/Paterson%20Scooby%202%20Capture.png.html)
Indeed, those are pics that I took. Glad you saved them.
I have no knowledge of Paterson Colts.
Could one of you folks explain what the extra piece of hardware is all about? I have seen that in several photos you all have posted but I have no clue.
Since the Paterson has no load lever, I am just guessing that it has to do with loading the cylinder, but I am probably very off base.
I am into 1851 Navy replicas and cousins and Dragoons.
Thanks in advance for entertaining a newbie. ^j)
Sincerely,
Jim
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Here you go Jim, it's called a loading tool. One end has a screw driver head, the other end has a ball that you can unscrew to reveal a hidden nipple pick. The flat end is inserted into the arbor slot to act as a fulcrum for pressing the ball into the chamber.
Here's a photo showing how it's used....
(http://i856.photobucket.com/albums/ab126/mike-116/Mobile%20Uploads/2016-12-24%2021.45.52_zpspw2wtss1.jpg)
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Hi Jim, what Mike said with the addition that under the ball there is a nipple wrench. The original Patersons and the Uberti replica have nipples that require a 4-edged nipple wrench. The nipple wrench under the ball for the Pietta replica has the typical 2-edged wrench, same nipples as on other Piettas. Owners of the Uberti never want to lose that tool if they ever want to remove the nipples of their Paterson.
Mike, nice job showing the Paterson loading tool!!
Regards,
Richard
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You're right Richard, forgot the nipple wrench is under there too. I didn't realize the Pietta nipples were the modern type instead of the cross head type.
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You guys are great! I had no idea that such a tool existed.
I learn something new every day, and that is saying something for someone with Old-timer's disease. &\?
Jim
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Hi, the Pietta Paterson is so nice that I am asking Leathersmith Mike to make a natural leather holster for it. I have been handling the Pietta Paterson so much that my wife asked me if I would like to take it to bed with us. That was the signal for me to put the Patterson down and talk with her. Talking with my wife is a ticket for my next revolver. ;)
Regards,
Richard
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Hi, the temp outside was 50F so I went out and shot my new Pietta Paterson. Well, she ain't a virgin anymore, and she ain't an 1851 right out of the box. I shot 30rds two hands from 25yds at my steel targets. The Paterson shoots ~8" high. and grouped ~4". Part of my shooting accuracy problem is the heavy trigger pull, it is 8+lbs. Another problem I ran into was that the cylinder would bind against the barrel right after the first shot, the remaining four shots required me to help turn the cylinder as I cocked. A gap of 0.003" is too tight with the barrel not having a forcing cone. On removal of the barrel a uniform lead splash can be seen on the rear end of the barrel. Even after one cylinder, removal of the barrel from the arbor was difficult because fouling is blown up inside the barrel arbor hole. I needed to lube that part with spit to continue shooting.
This is a photo of my loading area:
(http://farm2.staticflickr.com/1837/43897517942_4f7e0d114d_b.jpg)
This is a photo of my first five shots, I was aiming at the bottom of the steel gong. Two to the left the remaining three centered:
(http://farm2.staticflickr.com/1795/43897517692_eae34be7e8_b.jpg)
This a scooby like photo after finishing the shoot:
(http://farm1.staticflickr.com/935/43897518182_28fd335102_b.jpg)
The heavy hammer pull may be contributing to the very heavy trigger pull. However, I did see a video where the hammer would blow back and am now concerned that lightening the hammer spring would enance hammer blow-back. That video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAGH2xErhLE&t=457s
I already broke off the brass arbor button that was JB Weld to the arbor since it is known to be too short. Whether adding a arbor extension screw or adding a forcing cone worthwhile is still being considered. I'm certain that with enough work, a good trigger pull could be achieved and that the revolver could be sighted in to have poi=poa.
In any event, shooting the Paterson was fun and as Mike and scooby said "it is what it is".
Worst case this Pietta Patterson stays stock and added to my living room display.
I caution anyone considering the Patterson for a shooting BP revolver to think hard about that decision, very hard.
Edit: BTW, my first two shots were to the left until I settled down. I think that the Texas 9" barrel Paterson with with the long sight radius has the potential (getting the trigger pull reasonable) for being an extremely accurate BP revolver.
Regards,
Richard
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Welcome to the realm of Paterson shooters Richard. I'm sure you can work out the issues you are having and continue to enjoy shooting your new revolver. My Paterson has a .005 cylinder gap and does begin to bind up on the 3rd cylinder full. My revolver does not have a forcing cone either, just a small chamfer that would not be considered a forcing cone at all. I have never noticed any lead splash around the back end of the barrel.
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Congrats on the new Paterson. Thanks for sharing pics and shooting report. They sure are neat revolvers.
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Hi while I was a bit concerned on the stiffness of the Pietta Paterson action, after cleaning the revolver and putting fresh Ballistol in the revolver, the action is now a lot smoother. The more I cycle the action, the smoother the action becomes. The hammer and trigger pull is still heavy, but becoming more manageable with experience. Removal of the nipples for cleaning was a surprise, the nipples were in only finger tight. Pietta never let Brunhilde with her 100lb torque wrench near this Paterson during manufacture.
I would still like to lighten up the hammer spring, but concerned that hammer blow-back may occur. Maybe adding SliXshot nipples would minimize hammer blow back where I could lighten the hammer spring. I will wait for the replacement hammer springs come in to modify than irreversibly ruin the original hammer spring. The Pietta Paterson nipples seem to be the standard Pietta nipples used in the Pietta 1851/1860.
This adventure continues.
Regards,
Richard
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Hi, a new brass button to have the arbor bottom with a 0.005" cylinder/barrel gap was made. The button fits so well in the barrel arbor hole that I don't need to epoxy it on. For the second time I tore down the Paterson to smooth the internal parts. The Paterson isn't a revolver that should be disassembled often. The barrel pins are a separate piece that changes barrel registration every time it is removed. My barrel was coming off the frame easily with the original revolver after inserting and removal a number of times. Now the barrel is a bear to install and and remove again. After going through all the smoothing, the Paterson action is just as rough as before. The cylinder now over rotates the bolt when cocking the revolver very fast. The now smoothed bolt face now is cutting a groove in the cylinder ahead of the bolt hole. Guess I should have well left the revolver alone. It's hard to believe that Colt designed such a complex action design. Someone must have challenged him to make the most complex designed revolver his mind could envision. In the future, the action stays intact for cleaning, only the grip will be removed.
The Paterson is a must have replica for any BP collection, but know that it comes with lots of issues never seen in the later Colt revolvers.
I ordered SliX-shot nipples for this Paterson and looking to buy an extra cylinder. When the replacement hammer springs arrive, I will grind down the replacement spring to lighten that spring and install the SliX-shot nipples.
Bottom line is that the Paterson is a delightful revolver to hold, shoot, and display, but best left until you exhaust owning the better designed BP revolvers.
Regards,
Richard
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Hi, the new Paterson leather holster from LeathersmithMike arrived yesterday. It's a beauty and the workmanship is suburb, see:
(http://farm1.staticflickr.com/851/29007928367_2cde172142_b.jpg)
Due to high winds, we lost electric utility power for three days, had to use the generator. The internet was out so I looked for a gun project to keep me busy. To that end I JB Weld the free floating brass arbor spacing button to the arbor end and filed the brass button for a 0.006" gap. The larger gap will minimize the Paterson BP and lead splash fouling.
Regards,
Richard
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The holster looks great.
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Hi, in an email Kirst told me they are working on a .22 conversion cylinder for the Pietta Paterson that should be available early next year. To that end I began to prepare a full length .22 barrel for the Paterson. A 3/8" outer diameter barrel liner has been threaded on one inch of each end of the barrel, 3/8x24". The outer diameter will need to be reduced by filing to a diameter of ~0.360" so that it will be a slight tight fit in the .36 caliber Paterson barrel. A forcing cone will also be done on the rear end of the barrel after the barrel is fitted to the Paterson barrel. I will need to have the Kirst conversion cylinder before final fitting can be done.
Regards,
Richard
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Now THAT'S what I call "being prepared".... (7+"
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Hi Kirk, yes indeed, I'm just an old boy scout, be prepared. That sometimes drives my wife nuts, but that's my training from a boy. Being prepared has saved our asses a number of times.
Regards,
Richard
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Hi Kirk, yes indeed, I'm just an old boy scout, be prepared. That sometimes drives my wife nuts, but that's my training from a boy. Being prepared has saved our asses a number of times.
Regards,
Richard
I know, right?
I keep preaching this at my grown sons, but despite them both being former scouts, they don't take it to heart.
I was both a Scout and a leader. The lessons learned "took" I guess..
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Hi, in an effort to be prepared, I have tried to order Pietta Paterson spare parts. IMO the Pietta Paterson may be on life-support since mainsprings and cylinder aren't in stock at VTI. These parts are also not in stock at Taylor's, but I think that Taylor has more clout than VTI with Pietta. While probably all backordered at Taylor, I ordered a replacement cylinder, hand, and all springs for the Pietta Paterson. It may take awhile for me to see those part, but probably worthwhile in the future.
Be Prepared.
Regards,
Richard
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Hi, the new Paterson leather holster from LeathersmithMike arrived yesterday. It's a beauty and the workmanship is suburb, see:
(http://i1283.photobucket.com/albums/a549/ssb73q/Paterson%20holster_zpsamnf7p4x.jpg) (http://s1283.photobucket.com/user/ssb73q/media/Paterson%20holster_zpsamnf7p4x.jpg.html)
Due to high winds, we lost electric utility power for three days, had to use the generator. The internet was out so I looked for a gun project to keep me busy. To that end I JB Weld the free floating brass arbor spacing button to the arbor end and filed the brass button for a 0.006" gap. The larger gap will minimize the Paterson BP and lead splash fouling.
Regards,
Richard
Nice leather. Nice sidearm.
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Hi Electric, thanks. One can never go wrong owning a holster from Leathersmith Mike. While there are some cheap holsters available that will work with BP revolvers there is something special having a quality holster to hold and protect the revolver being used. While I value my BP revolvers, I value my Leathersmit Mike's holsters even more. L@. L@. L@.
Regards,
Richard
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Hi, in an effort to be prepared, I have tried to order Pietta Paterson spare parts. IMO the Pietta Paterson may be on life-support since mainsprings and cylinder aren't in stock at VTI. These parts are also not in stock at Taylor's, but I think that Taylor has more clout than VTI with Pietta. While probably all backordered at Taylor, I ordered a replacement cylinder, hand, and all springs for the Pietta Paterson. It may take awhile for me to see those part, but probably worthwhile in the future.
Be Prepared.
Regards,
Richard
Hi, I just heard from Taylors that they have my Pietta Paterson parts and they have been shipped. The old boy scout motto is Be Prepared. Uberti Paterson parts are almost impossible to get. IMO it won't be long before the Pietta part join that class. I suggest that you order Paterson parts while they are available. Springs and hands are worth investing in if you intend on having a working Pietta Paterson in the future.
I also have an extra cylinder for the Pietta Paterson coming. That damn bolt chews up the entrance and exit cylinder bolt holes where a pristine cylinder when displayed makes some sense for an anal retentive like me.
The trigger pull on my Pietta Paterson is over 8lbs. I intend to do a trigger and reduced mainspring force job in an effort to have a usable and accurate Paterson.
Regards,
Richard
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I know that the replica Paterson revolvers go for a bit more than say, an 1851, but this one on Gunbroker is ridiculous:
http://www.gunbroker.com/item/636099248 (http://www.gunbroker.com/item/636099248)
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It's only $10,000. I'm guessing the seller meant $1,000. Still too high.
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It's only $10,000. I'm guessing the seller meant $1,000. Still too high.
My guess too. I'm just amazed that he hasn't corrected it yet.
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Hi, notice that the $10,000 Paterson is a smoothbore. Maybe this guy thinks someone will pay for a one of a kind Paterson revolver?
Regards,
Richard
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Hi, I totally removed all the Pietta Paterson parts today and again stoned the moving parts. After assembly the Paterson is worst than before, a bummer. The cylinder now over rotates if cocked fast. For some reason the bolt is somewhat too short and only engages the cylinder lockup hole to the rear of the cylinder registration holes. Reviews of the Pietta Paterson also report the same issue. Based on what Mike and scooby report, I suggest that you get a used Uberti Paterson if you want a reliable shooter.
I am looking forward to what Fingers reports on having Goon's do an action job on his Pietta Paterson.
Tuning my Pietta Paterson is a bridge too far for me.
Regards,
Richard
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Richard, I suggest you contact the Goon (Mike Brackett) and let him have a shot at it. The action on both guns he worked for me has to be experienced to be believed.
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Hi, I ordered a few more parts for the Pietta Paterson. I talked to Ryan at Taylor Firearms about the lack of replacement parts for the Paterson's. Getting Pietta Paterson parts has been difficult, Uberti almost impossible.
IMO if you ever think you would like to own a replica Paterson, act quickly or forever hold your peace.
Notice on how original Patersons now go for over $250k. It wouldn't surprise me if we soon see used replicas for over $2k.
Regards,
Richard
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Hi, in the past I have pissed and moaned about the very heavy hammer and trigger pull of my Pietta Paterson. Forget any good accuracy with a trigger pull as heavy as a New York State Trooper's Glock. With the arrival of a replacement Paterson hammer mainspring, I reduced the width of that spring to reduce the mainspring force. Initially a bench grinder was used, but I soon found that I could do a better job with a hand held dremel tool with a sanding ring. This is a comparison between the original spring and the modified spring:
(http://i1283.photobucket.com/albums/a549/ssb73q/springs_zpscghcvulw.jpg) (http://s1283.photobucket.com/user/ssb73q/media/springs_zpscghcvulw.jpg.html)
The original spring is on the left.
Hammer pull is now very nice and the trigger pull went from over 8lbs with the original spring to ~5lb with the modified spring. The functioning of the revolver is now a lot smoother.
It will now be necessary to shoot the revolver to see if hammer blow back will occur. I have seen reports where Paterson hammer blow back will begin to rotate the cylinder, not a good thing. If hammer blow back does occur with the reduced force spring, I may try length sizing the SliXShot nipples and using them to minimize hammer blow back.
Regards,
Richard
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Hi, getting parts for the Pietta Paterson has been a struggle. I heard back from Taylors that my ordered Paterson cylinder is now back in stock and being sent to me.
Since the Paterson cylinder is more easily loaded off the revolver, extra Paterson cylinders are useful.
Regards,
Richard
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Hi, I'm about ready to get back into my Pietta Paterson. The barrel is difficult to remove, the trigger pull is still too strong. The internet is full of information on most everything other on taming a Pietta Paterson. With 17 more parts than an 1851, it is a engineering nightmare. Has anyone here been able to satisfactory tame their Paterson? Inquiring minds need to know.
Regards,
Richard
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Richard: I have a Uberti Paterson. I took it apart as far as removing the water table and stopped there. Took me forever to get it back together correctly. Good luck!
RC
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My Paterson is an Uberti also. I have had it apart and reassembled several times with no problems. Mine works smoothly and is easily loaded with the loading tool so I can't give you much advice.
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Hi, I began to again work on the Pietta Paterson. The first issue addressed is the difficulty of removing and reinstalling the barrel. Using feeler gauges, I determined that a shim of ~0.008" needs to be added to the front bottom of the recoil shield/arbor part. With the shim in place the barrel can be easily removed and reinstalled. Brass shims have been ordered to correct this problem. The other issue I noticed is that the hammer spring is somewhat twisted where the hammer hits the left side of the recoil shield. I have a couple of new hammer springs that can be used to resolve this issue.
IMO there are many reasons why the Paterson put Colt into Chapter 11.
Regards,
Richard
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Hi, while waiting for the shim material to arrive, I am considering adding a taller dovetail front sight to the Paterson. My Paterson shoots very high where a taller front sight should do wonders. I have been searching for a reference where a dovetail front sight is on a Paterson, but find nothing.
Regards,
Richard
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Hi, Paterson dovetail roughed in:
(http://farm5.staticflickr.com/4365/36442226875_ec80fefbd5_b.jpg)
Regards,
Richard
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Hi, the Paterson dovetail tall front sight has been completed:
(http://farm5.staticflickr.com/4433/36277341522_b3ff7af81d_b.jpg)
(http://farm5.staticflickr.com/4407/36445601825_5fbb04c629_b.jpg)
The tall front sight will be cut down at the range to have poi=poa @25yds.
Regards,
Richard
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Hi, the shim material arrived where I cut an 0.008" brass shim for the front of the recoil shield. You can see the shim (brass at the lower front of the recoil shield) here:
(http://farm5.staticflickr.com/4425/36312070132_6c4ae3fe9c_b.jpg)
The Paterson barrel now removes and installs with no difficulty. A new mainspring was narrowed and installed in the revolver. This is the revolver ready to shoot:
(http://farm5.staticflickr.com/4426/36312071022_9aab239221_b.jpg)
Regards,
Richard
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Hi, the Paterson with the new tall sight has been sighted in. Using a tripod it only took 5 shots to get the revolver sighted in poi=poa @25yds. I was using hand cast .380" balls with 20gr by volume (~18gr weight) Black MZ. I have an extra cylinder so was able to shoot a number of times before reloading. The brass shim fix to the revolver allows very easy barrel removal and installation. The new buffalo target got blasted. Due to the heavy trigger pull, I was only able to get ~3" groups from 25yds using a two handed hold. Not bad for an antique of a design Paterson. There were no issues using the ground down hammer spring, the hammer didn't blow back in the least. This is the revolver sighted in and cleaned:
(http://farm5.staticflickr.com/4420/36380448802_e16a598f58_b.jpg)
The only unintended concequence was that the revolver with the taller sight won't fit in the holster Mike made for me. If you are interested in a very lightly used lined natural leather Paterson holster PM me to discuss cost.
There is one thing more I intend on doing to this Paterson. The barrel/cylinder gap of 0.002" is too close where I need to replace the brass arbor extension. If the metal of the Paterson arbor is soft enough I will drill a hole in the end of the arbor to insert a set screw that can be adjusted for barrel/cylinder gap.
Regards,
Richard
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I can make the new sight fit the holster Richard. Just send it to me and I'll take care of it. (No charge of course)
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Hi Mike, I can't believe on how generous you are. I thank you so much.
If there are any here that haven't' purchased a super quality holster from Mike, you don't know what you are missing.
We love our revolvers and there is no better way to enjoy them than housing them in a LeathersmithMike's holster.
Instead of buggering the arbor with a set screw extension, I have decided to just JB Weld another brass button and file it down to have a barrel/cylinder gap of 0.005". The Paterson fouls so easily with a tighter gap that I will go larger and then adjust to optimal after the brass button settles in. IMO trying to do tight tolerances with a Paterson is a fool errand.
Regards,
Richard
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Hi, my Paterson is becoming a money pit for replacement parts. While setting the barrel/cylinder gap the wedge kept going in further and further until it bottomed. The gap was still too big, 0.008". Looking at the wedge shows that the metal of the wedge has flowed. The metal of the wedge is very soft steel. The wedges of the other Pietta models are hardened steel. New replacement wedges have been ordered. If they are also soft steel, I will harden them.
One can't look at my Paterson without seeing another issue to fix.
My wife says that I shouldn't complain since it keeps me busy and off the street. ;D
Regards,
Richard
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Hi, until the new wedges come in, I found a workaround in repairing the wedge and setting the final barrel/cylinder gap of 0.005". Since the wedge steel is soft, hammering it back into shape on a flat anvil work-hardens the wedge steel. A hammered wedge may work better and last longer than a new one.
BTW, I had thought of using another Pietta or Uberti Colt model wedge, but those wedges are ~0.030" narrower than the Paterson wedge.
Regards,
Richard
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Hi, I ordered this stuff to do a case hardening on the Paterson wedge:
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/119479/cherry-red-surface-hardening-compound-1-lb
This stuff should also be useful to harden the hammer face of Pietta Colt revolvers.
I think this stuff is like Kasenit?
Regards,
Richard
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Let us know how it works!
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I too would be interested in hearing how it works. I would be somewhat worried that if the wedge is hardened too much it might damage the wedge slot. I have a Uberti Walker that both the wedge and the wedge slot got damaged, flowed as you say, and now the wedge won't stay tight. I bought a new wedge and it only worked right for a couple cylinders then it wouldn't stay tight. It appears once that wedge slot is compromised you're basically screwed. I'm trying to fix it with shims now and it seems to be working. If it keeps working I will epoxy the shims in place.
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Hi Lonesome, the wedge issue for the Walkers is a historic problem when used with full loadings. I think that Goon's has a solution for this problem with the Walker, a 1/4" set screw in the end of the arbor. Maybe Mike will chime in to advise.
Regards,
Richard
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Hi, the replacement wedges from Taylor arrived today. Both wedges are slightly wider than the original wedge and seat well in the Pietta Paterson. As soon as I get the hardening compound I will try doing a surface hardening on the original wedge and report back what I learn. This is a video of the process:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HTIXGl_3li8
Regards,
Richard
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Hi, recently I offered a fleabay seller $20 for a couple of mugs, a Harpers Ferry and a Texas Paterson. They accepted my offer. These are the two mugs:
(http://farm5.staticflickr.com/4436/35862527543_39f0837cd9_b.jpg)
It's interesting that the person labeling the Paterson mug doesn't know much about the production Patersons, see:
(http://farm5.staticflickr.com/4367/35836767684_e0729e0f85_b.jpg)
Can you tell me what's wrong?
Regards,
Richard
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It should say .44 caliber?
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Thought they were 25s. Mark
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The first Paterson models were .28 caliber.
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Hi, the Paterson was made in four calibers, .28, .31, .34, and .36. One experimental Paterson was made in .54.
Since the subject on the mug is the Texas Paterson, all those were .36.
The label of the mug, .40 caliber, is wrong.
Regards,
Richard
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I humbly stand corrected. Mark
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Hi Mark, every time I carry my BP revolvers out to the range I think of this song:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2ssbgThljU
Regards,
Richard
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Hi, the replacement wedges from Taylor arrived today. Both wedges are slightly wider than the original wedge and seat well in the Pietta Paterson. As soon as I get the hardening compound I will try doing a surface hardening on the original wedge and report back what I learn. This is a video of the process:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HTIXGl_3li8
Regards,
Richard
Hi, I put the original Pietta Paterson wedge that had been hammered wider and surface hardened back in the Paterson. The wedge clamps the barrel hard to the arbor with just a little of the wedge protruding from the right side of the barrel. Time will tell if surface hardening helps the Pietta Paterson wedge distortion issue.
Regards,
Richard
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I can make the new sight fit the holster Richard. Just send it to me and I'll take care of it. (No charge of course)
Hi, Mike fixed my Paterson holster so that the Pietta Paterson with tall front sight now fits. I can't thank Mike enough for fixing my Paterson holster. Great customer service from Mike!!
Regards,
Richard
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Hi, early this year Kirst told me that they were working on a .22 conversion cylinder for the Pietta Paterson. I recently emailed Kirst to check on the status of this project. Their reply:
"Thanks for your inquiry; the 22 Patterson Konverter has been placed on the back burner. We've been busy reorganizing my company, which has turned out to be a huge project.
The 22 Patterson is still a high priority; I hope I can get back on it after the new year.
Keep in touch.
Walt Kirst"
I then emailed Howell to ask if they have any intentions on producing a .22 conversion cylinder for the Pietta Paterson. Their reply:
"We will not be making a 22 conversion for the Pietta Paterson. Thank you for the inquiry.
Maggie"
Regards,
Richard
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Hi, I love shooting my Pietta Paterson with taller dovetailed front sight. Considering that getting spare parts is becoming more and more difficult as time goes by, I ordered a new Paterson:
https://www.dixiegunworks.com/index/page/product/product_id/8656/category_id/321/product_name/RH0600+Dixie+Pietta+Texas+Paterson+Pistol
I used the money I saved for the Pietta Starr that isn't now being made.
One can't own enough Paterson's? L@. L@. L@.
Regards,
Richard
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Hi, I love shooting my Pietta Paterson with taller dovetailed front sight. Considering that getting spare parts is becoming more and more difficult as time goes by, I ordered a new Paterson:
Well, I guess that's one way to do it...
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Hi Kirk, John Coffee "Jack" Hays equipped his troopers with two Patersons. I'm going to equip this new Paterson like my first one, tall front sight, lightened hammer spring, and slicking up the parts. This will let me do two handed steel target blasting. Using the brace of Patersons should be a lot easier to hold than doing a Josey Wales with a brace of Walkers.
Regards,
Richard
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Hi, while waiting for my new Paterson to arrive, I narrowed a Paterson spring to produce a lighter hammer and trigger pull. A dremel tool with sanding drum was used to narrow the spring. An original and narrowed Paterson spring:
(http://farm2.staticflickr.com/1837/42982451665_6ab2389133_b.jpg)
The original is on the left.
Regards,
Richard
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Nice work...as usual! )l_
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Nice. I am glad you got you Paterson shooting good. I would like to have a Paterson because they go back all the way to the fur trade era. The last rendezvous was in 1840. I doubt any mountain man ever carried a Paterson at the rendezvous but in theory it could have happened.
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Hi, the new Pietta Texas Paterson arrived yesterday:
(http://farm2.staticflickr.com/1839/43912722632_e01a3f8e31_b.jpg)
The work begins. I now need to figure out where all those parts go. ;) ;)
Regards,
Richard
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Hi, some things of note about this new Paterson. The fit and finish is perfect, just like my older Paterson. It's interesting that the new Paterson has a serial number just ~100 larger than the older one. The older Paterson was purchased from EMF Company, the new from Dixie Gun Works.
Like the older Paterson, the action is stiff, but the timing is good. Also, like the older Paterson the barrel takes some effort to remove after the wedge is out. Adding a 0.008" shim under the recoil shield should fix this problem just like it did with my older Paterson. All the internal parts have been smoothed and reassembled in the frame. It takes some good dexterity to successfully reassemble the Pietta Paterson.
Unless only to be used for display, IMO a new BP revolver shooter should stay away from the Paterson until they gain enough experience tearing down the more common Colt revolvers.
I'm still looking forward to Fingers report on how well his Goon tuned Pietta Paterson turned out.
Regards,
Richard
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Hi, she is all back together and running like a fine swiss watch:
(http://farm1.staticflickr.com/848/29026826047_b3ed72ff37_b.jpg)
Notice the brass shim at the bottom of the recoil shield. The barrel now goes on and off easily. All that left to do is correct the short arbor length and install a front sight.
Then it steel blasting time, baby. &\? &\? &\?
Regards,
Richard
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Just gorgeous....
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Hi scooby, thank you for your very kind comments, I am humbled. Many the time it seemed that both my posts and photos have just gone down a rat hole where there was no interest to never be seen again. All posts took a big hit when PhotoBucket screwed us. So many photos were lost. I now keep my posted photos on my backed up computer, just in case Flickr does something similar to PhotoBucket.
IMO this message board would be more active if every member posted their BP experiences, especially the newbies. That would give confidence to other newbies just coming up the learning curve. Most people like to share their experiences with people of similar interests. Why that isn't happening here is a mystery to me. We were once all newbies.
The new Paterson arbor has been lengthened by JB Welding a brass button to the arbor end:
(http://farm2.staticflickr.com/1799/43071671145_98aca56c2d_b.jpg)
The brass button was then filed down until the barrel/cylinder gap is 0.005":
(http://farm2.staticflickr.com/1820/43977217171_136c72dc63_b.jpg)
The dovetail front sight will be done early next week.
BTW, I have a Paterson book that shows many original Patersons with a blade front sight, they are small, but still a blade. It seems all the repos have that 1851 version of a front sight?
Regards,
Richard
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Neat looking gun!
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I'd love to add a Paterson to my collection, but cannot justify the money they get for one. Maybe I'll run across one someday. Of course, I've said the same thing about an 1860, and that hasn't shown up on my doorstep yet.
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Hi, a new dovetail front sight has been added to my new Paterson. The rear sight was also widened. The new Paterson will now be sighted in to have poi=poa @25yds. The brace of Pattersons:
(http://farm2.staticflickr.com/1797/44035185921_f9ac433909_b.jpg)
(http://farm2.staticflickr.com/1833/44035186051_c09f8d9975_b.jpg)
The new Paterson is on the bottom of the photos.
Regards,
Richard
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Nice pair Richard.
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Hi, I ordered a used copy of Paterson Colt Pistol Variations, by Phillips Wilson on eBay, see:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/112287663208?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
Prices for this book are all over the place, but I think this is the book to have if you are interested in the Paterson revolver.
Regards,
Richard
Hi, another Paterson revolver book for not too bad a price:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Paterson-Colt-Pistol-Variations-by-Philip-R-Pillips-R-L-Wilson-Hard-Cover/231628113866?hash=item35ee1c87ca%3Ag%3AscsAAOSwHnFVnusl&_sop=15&_sacat=0&_nkw=colt+paterson&_from=R40&rt=nc&LH_TitleDesc=0
Regards,
Richard
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Hi, the new Patterson was sighted in and shot today. The front sight was filed down to have poi = poa @25yds. This first shoot of a new revolver didn't go without a problem. Like the previous Pietta Paterson, the wedge would bottom in after the first shot. The soft barrel metal flows in the sharp corners of the wedge slot. The wedge was then hammered down to widen the wedge. That adjustment worked for the remainder of the shoot. IMO the cylinder/barrel gap of 0.005" is too small for the Paterson. Fouling on the barrel rear and cylinder face has the cylinder turn hard only after a few shots. If I ever get around to it, I will open up that gap to at least 0.008". I know the argument of a tight gap is suppose to minimizes fouling, but my experience with the Patersons shows just the opposite.
I shot at least 10 cylinders this morning. Yes, fouling on the arbor is an issue for the Paterson after a cylinder is shot. However, since one needs to remove the barrel to change or load cylinders, it's easy to remove the fouling from the arbor and hit it with a light spray of Ballistol.
Smoothing the action has done wonders for accuracy, a nice light crisp trigger pull. Two handed groups of 2" are easily achievable @25yds with a well tuned Paterson.
I must admit to having a dilemma on cleaning the Paterson. I usually strip my BP revolvers after shooting to clean them in hot soapy water. Since the recoil shield/arbor assembly is screwed to the frame, removing that part may affect realignment on assembly. One needs to take off the recoil shield/arbor assembly to get to the internal parts of the Paterson. I may just soapy water clean the barrel and cylinder, but only wipe the frame off with a wet rag.
Regards,
Richard
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Glad to hear it's a shooter and not just a looker.
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Hi Dave, what's nice about the Paterson is that the hammer face is flat and doesn't have a safety groove like the other PB Colts. That flat face minimizes cap jams. Some day I hope to find a Paterson with a loading lever.
What I find interesting is that those not into BP revolvers always comment on how beautiful the Paterson. Even my wife that has zero interest in BP shooting said that she would like to have a Paterson, just for display. I asked her if my Paterson displayed satisfies her, her answer "no, I want one".
In the past I have railed against the Paterson for a new BP shooter. However, if they are willing to do a little work, they will have a shooter Paterson that brings them considerable joy. Also, the accomplishment of taming the Paterson will do wonders for their ego.
Regards,
Richard
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Hi, just received a neat bronze Paterson medal purchased on eBay:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/NATIONAL-RIFLE-ASSOCIATION-NRA-COLT-PATERSON-MEDAL-FREE-SHIPPING/192626824579?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649
This bronze medal will be added to the silver Paterson medals that are around my living room display Paterson revolver. The silver medals look similar to the bronze:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/COLT-PATERSON-1836-REVOLVER-PISTOL-GUN-NRA-999-SILVER-COIN-RARE-CASE-COOL-G/381896124403?hash=item58eac867f3:g:8tAAAOSwJ7RYXZXR
Regards,
Richard
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Hi, early this year Kirst told me that they were working on a .22 conversion cylinder for the Pietta Paterson. I recently emailed Kirst to check on the status of this project. Their reply:
"Thanks for your inquiry; the 22 Patterson Konverter has been placed on the back burner. We've been busy reorganizing my company, which has turned out to be a huge project.
The 22 Patterson is still a high priority; I hope I can get back on it after the new year.
Keep in touch.
Walt Kirst"
I then emailed Howell to ask if they have any intentions on producing a .22 conversion cylinder for the Pietta Paterson. Their reply:
"We will not be making a 22 conversion for the Pietta Paterson. Thank you for the inquiry.
Maggie"
Regards,
Richard
Hi, I called Walt Kirst today to discuss Kirst making a conversion cylinder, either .22 or .38 Colt. It seems that Kirst has little interest in producing a conversion cylinder for the Paterson. He would be willing to make me one of a kind for ~$1500, but I told him that was a bit too rich for my blood. Too bad.
Regards,
Richard
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Yeah, I would pass on that too. (jh
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"Hi Dave, what's nice about the Paterson is that the hammer face is flat and doesn't have a safety groove like the other PB Colts."
The Gregorelli & Uberti 1851 Navy repros I have also have a flat hammer face. Some of them still got cap jams because of rough machining or casting(not sure if they are machined or cast) on the edges.
As for the $1500 conversion cylinder for Paterson, I would pass on that too, there's a lot of other things I'd rather spend it on if I had $1500.
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Hi, I have noticed that the Pietta Paterson is going up in price, that is assuming you can get one, $780:
https://www.emf-company.com/store/pc/1836-Texas-Paterson-c531.htm
However, you can get a Pietta engraved Paterson for $1700.
These price increases seem to be following the inflation of other more complex Pietta revolvers like the LeMat.
I never dreamed that replica BP revolvers would command such high prices.
Regards,
Richard
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Hi, real Patersons command a very high price:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uU89W8x2pCk
Regards,
Richard
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Hi, I saw something on the Taylor Firearms site that suggests that the Pietta Paterson has been discontinued:
https://www.taylorsfirearms.com/pietta-patterson-revolver-parts.html
If true, it's too bad.
Regards,
Richard
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Hi, concerned about getting extra cylinders for my Pietta Patersons I ordered two Pietta Paterson cylinders from VTI. They only have one in stock that is being shipped to me today. VTI told me they have more coming in two weeks. If you have the Pietta Paterson I recommend getting spare Paterson parts while you can. K_) K_)
Regards,
Richard
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Hi, sometimes it's difficult to know if information on the internet is true or not. Taylor Firearms says that the Pietta Paterson is being discontinued. I emailed Pietta to see if they confirmed that information. This is the reply to my email, "More Patersons will be available in April".
However, Pietta also said that the Pietta Starr revolver would be available, "Single Action only in May" on 2/18. Then in 6/18 when again asked, Pietta replied, "The Starrs are not in production and we dont know when they will be back".
At this point I don't know what to believe about the future availability of the Pietta Paterson, Paterson parts, or any other Pietta revolver.
Regards,
Richard
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Hi, the extra cylinder for the Pietta Paterson arrived yesterday. The nipples were removed and both the nipples and cylinder were degreased using paint thinner. The nipples were reinstalled with antisieze put on the threads. The Paterson is notorious for having cylinder wear near the bolt holes. I have another Pietta Paterson on display in my living room where I could use its cylinder, but want to keep that revolver pristine. Hopefully VTI will have two more extra Paterson cylinders available for me in two weeks. The Pietta Paterson shooter ready for some good weather:
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7815/46334039965_bd49e5150b_b.jpg)
The Colt Paterson is one BP C&B revolver that is known to sometimes come with extra cylinders. I maintain that if Colt could supply extra cylinders for their first 1837 revolver, they could also do the same for their later model revolvers.
Regards,
Richard
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Hi, last night I was cycling my living room display Pietta Paterson and noticed that the cylinder was rotating irregularly. When pointing the revolver down the cylinder would rotate correctly. This suggested that the hand spring may be broken. I took the Paterson apart and indeed the hand spring was broken. I have on hand four extra hand springs and replaced the broken spring. I may not have mentioned before that I use the book Antique Firearms, Assembly/Disassembly by David R. Chicoine when working on my replica BP revolvers. That book has the best write up on working on the Paterson I have found.
Something I notice about this thread are the large number of reads. There seems to be a lot of interest in the Paterson, but very few postings by others. It would be nice if others also posted their interest in the Paterson.
Regards,
Richard
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Richard, I have great interest in the Paterson. I just don't own one (yet), so I have nothing to add to the conversation. But rest assured, I read everything you guys post. Keep it coming, there's plenty of people ingesting the information.
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Hi Dave, the Paterson is indeed a strange beast. IMO the revolver was designed by sequential engineering, IMO a reason Colt went bankrupt. There is little information about working on the innards. The only internet search I found that discussed the Paterson function were posts by our own Fingers McGee and 45 Dragoon:
https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/position-of-hand-spring-on-replica-pietta-colt-paterson.819904/
Based on that thread I had expected Fingers last year to give a shooting report on his tuned Paterson.
Regards,
Richard
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Like Dave, I'd love to give you a report on my Paterson, but...well...I don't own one. ^j)
On the bright side, I soon hope to be able to give range reports on my Pedersoli Sharps and Navy Arms Winchester '66. &\?
Since you seem to be the reigning 'Prince of Paterson' here, we'll look to you for our informative write-ups and range reports.
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Hi, the two extra cylinders arrived today. They were cleaned in paint thinner and acetone. Antiseize put on the nipples. The Paterson with four extra cylinders:
Five Paterson cylinders will be loaded tomorrow and shot the first nice day.
Regards,
Richard
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Looks like you're all set Richard.
By the way, don't bring that to California. It could be construed as a high capacity firearm. (7+"
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Hi, the five Paterson cylinders were loaded and shot at my steel targets from 25yds using a two hand hold. 20gr Black Mz, felt wads, 0.380" balls, and Remington #10 caps were used. Groups were ~2". The long sight radius and tall front sight allowed accurate poi=poa. The Paterson is an amazing accurate handgun, as good, if not better, than my 1851s.
The only issue I ran into is that even with the minimal fouling of Black Mz, the fouling would cause the cylinder to drag and barrel removal was difficult. Between cylinders the arbor was sprayed with water followed by Ballistol. Maybe using a grease on the arbor would be useful to minimal the fouling? I don't know, but that is something to try in the future. The cylinder/barrel gap should also be increased. I'm thinking that I may drill and tap a hole in the end of the arbor so that a set screw could be used to optimally set the gap.
The cylinders and revolver have been cleaned in soapy water and now drying in my oven at 250dF to remove all the water.
Shooting the Paterson today was a lot of fun. I only wish I had five more loaded cylinders. However at a $105 a pop, I will live with my current five cylinders.
Regards,
Richard
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Great shooting report, Richard!
If I might suggest, a little Lubriplate AA650 on the arbor has always worked wonders on my Remmies with sticking pins. I use them on my Colt arbors as well with good results.
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Hi Kirk, I can't find Lubriplate AA650 for sale anywhere. Do you have a link on where to buy it? Is that just a white lithium grease?
Regards,
Richard
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Hi Kirk, I can't find Lubriplate AA650 for sale anywhere. Do you have a link on where to buy it? Is that just a white lithium grease?
Regards,
Richard
My bad, Richard. It is Lubriplate 630 AA.
It can be ordered (among others) from BAC-online.com
P/N is 630-AA-14oz, $15.05 You might be able to find it cheaper elsewhere, though. A 14 oz can will probably outlast you.
It is a modified lithium based grease, but my experience is that it's far better than regular LG.
-
630 AA (six-thirty)
Try e-bay or go to the Lubriplate web site and find whether there is a dealer in your area. I learned about it from Captain too, about six years ago. That stuff really works and comes off easily enough during clean-up but otherwise stays on good. Highly recommended.
https://www.lubriplate.com/Products/Grease/Multi-Purpose-Greases/630-Series/NO-630-AA/NO-630-AA,-10-OZ-TUBE/
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=lubriplate+630-aa&ul_noapp=true
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Hi guys, thanks for the information and links. I ordered a 10oz tube of Lubriplate from eBay. I will give it a try the next time I shoot the Paterson and report back.
Regards,
Richard
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Hi, I was a bit reluctant to try drilling a hole in the end of the Paterson arbor because I thought that arbor steel was hard. This morning I gave it a try. There does seem to be a surface hardening, but once penetrated with a centering drill, the drilling with a #25 drill went easily. The hole was tapped 10-32 and a brass screw inserted to set the cylinder/barrel gap. Looking for an easier way to adjust gap, I have on order thread locking set screws from McMaster-Carr. There is a blob of nylon on the side of the set screw that holds the screw in place. If this system works well, future arbor length fixes will be done this way instead of JB Weld a brass button that need filing down for gap adjustment.
Regards,
Richard
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Hi, the locking 10-32 set screws arrived and a 3/8" long set screw was installed in the end of the Pietta Paterson arbor. Setting the gap is very simple. A 10-32 screw moves 0.03125" per single turn. Measure the gap with a large initial gap and then calculate on how many turns down, and/or partial turns is needed to set the gap desired. Works great, easy peasy. The barrel was then removed from the frame and reinstalled a number of times with the wedge hammered in. The gap holds well after many barrel removal cycles.
The set screw:
Regards,
Richard
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Hi, the Lubriplate arrived yesterday. Something I noticed in the couple of available Paterson shooting videos is that the user used overball lube. I was using lubed felt wads.
My problem with the Pietta Paterson is that the revolver fouls causing the cylinder to drag and barrel removal difficult. The Paterson has no forcing cone and powder residue is driven between the arbor and barrel arbor hole. Powder residue is also driven between the arbor and cylinder arbor hole. That fouling is sufficient to have the cylinder drag after just a couple of shots and make barrel removal difficult after a cylinder is fired.
I never liked the use of grease on BP firearms because hot soapy water doesn't completely remove all the grease. Always used Ballistol that is water miscible. However with the Paterson, compromises must be made. The main question I now have is what is the best method to minimize fouling in the Paterson while still allowing easy cleanup.
I noticed that in the Paterson shooting videos that overball lube was used. That has me thinking that maybe the overball lube is driven between the cylinder and arbor minimizing fouling?
I think that some experimentation is now required. Since I have five cylinders that can be loaded, maybe testing different lubing methods would prove useful. Maybe load one cylinder with a lubed wad, one cylinder with 50/50 beeswax/olive oil overball lube, one cylinder with overball Crisco, one cylinder with overball Lubriplate, and one cylinder with lubed wad but with Lubriplate placed on the arbor. Inspect the function of the revolver after each cylinder shot and clean the arbor for the next test cylinder.
What do you think?
Regards,
Richard
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Sounds like a plan. You are the only one with multiple cylinders so you are elected.
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Experimentation is great, of course, but I would not use lithium grease over (or under) ball. It works great on the arbor/cylinder pin, action parts, hand channel, etc. (particularly the arbor) but creating lithium vapor/grease smoke by putting it in the chambers is not a good idea. I would avoid that.
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Hi G Dog, that's a good point. All the cylinders have already been loaded, but I will wipe out the Lubriplate on the one cylinder and replace it with Dow Corning vacuum grease. The Dow Corning is a very stiff silicone grease. We have snow for a couple of days so shooting this foul experiment is a few days away.
BTW, I'm not looking forward to smelling Crisco vapor. (l" (l"
Regards,
Richard
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Hi, the five Paterson cylinders were fired with the above schedule. The results:
Sagebrush wads, Ballistol - Cylinder rotates easily, barrel removal difficult.
50/50% Beeswax/Olive oil, Ballistol - Cylinder rotates easily, barrel almost impossible to remove - needed to wedge it off.
Sagebrush wads, Lubriplate - Cylinder rotates easily, barrel almost impossible to remove - needed to wedge it off.
Crisco, Ballistol - Cylinder rotates easily, barrel removal difficult.
Dow Vacuum grease, Ballistol - Cylinder rotates easily, barrel almost impossible to remove - needed to wedge it off.
So what was learned? First, opening up the cylinder/barrel gap to 0.008 allows the cylinder to rotate freely irrespective of the lube on the arbor. Second, no lube tried allows the barrel to be easily removed from the arbor. "almost impossible to remove" required a wooden wedge hammered between the cylinder and barrel to allow removal.
I'm at a loss to what to try next. Put rifling in the barrel arbor hole? Ream the arbor barrel hole larger? I'm a bit reluctant to do anything that permanently modifies the Paterson, new parts aren't cheap. Any and all ideas are welcome.
While this experiment was not particularly useful, I did get to shoot the Pietta Patterson a few times. Even got a couple of 1.25" groups from 25yds. This Paterson Texas can really shoot. (7& (7&
Regards,
Richard
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I have never seen any type of Paterson, let alone shot one, but if it is a Pietta, the revolvers produced by them since going to CNC machining ~2000 (1851 Navy/1860 Army/1861 Navy) the respective parts are like the LEGOs of the BP revolver world.
I have an ASM 1860 Army .44 that I did a try-fit of Pietta 1851 Navy barrel and cylinder on the arbor, and vice-versa. The ASM arbor was about .001" smaller in diameter than the Pietta arbor.
This has nothing to do with a Paterson, but my point is that the barrel lug arbor hole may be just slightly smaller in diameter than the arbor.
I see nothing wrong with slightly enlarging the arbor hole with lapping compound until you get a good slip fit with the arbor, as the wedge secures the barrel to the arbor. I think no one would know the difference. I have no idea why you would be getting fouling that deep into the arbor recess to disallow disassembly by hand. .0008" barrel/cylinder gap is still very tight.
Just my $.02 worth.
Regards,
Jim
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... that the barrel lug arbor hole may be just slightly smaller in diameter than the arbor.
I see nothing wrong with slightly enlarging the arbor hole with lapping compound until you get a good slip fit with the arbor, by hand.
I have an older Pietta 1860 whos barrel was not re-joining the frame without some leather mallet taps at the muzzle, so I smoothed out the frames arbor channel with some fine paper glued to a dowel and polished the forward end of the arbor too. That reduced the friction just enough so that I now get a congenial press-fit / slip-fit like what Sourdough just described.
I too wonder how fowling would get up into the arbor channel. Is that a feature of the Paterson, do you suppose?
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Hi G Dog, the Paterson arbor is 0.004" smaller diameter than the opening arbor hole of the barrel, 0.434". There theoretically shouldn't be a fit problem if the barrel hole is actually 0.004" larger for the full depth. I ordered a 0.434" reamer to make sure that the hole is the same dimension all the way in.
I have noticed that the metal of the barrel at the rear of the wedge is coining and narrowing the barrel arbor hole at that location. A file was used to remove the excess metal from the inside of the hole at the wedge opening. Shooting the Paterson has required the wedge to be seated deeper after every shooting outing. I have already widened the wedge a number of times to have a snug barrel fit to the arbor. I'm beginning to wonder if 20gr powder loading is too much for the Paterson.
My last shoot tested lubricants. Lubricants didn't do well to minimize fouling. It's time to go the other direction and try no lubes at all. I will load up the cylinders with different powder, 15gr. Triple 7, Black Mz, and Olde Eynsford will be tested to see if there is a powder that minimizes fouling when no lube is used.
I have seen other reports were removal of the Paterson barrel was difficult because of fouling. The rear of the barrel bore opening is flat. Later Colt designs created a forcing cone and a narrow external end at the forcing cone. Colt also added a spiral cut in the arbor to take up fouling in later gun models. In hindsight, the Paterson was a revolver with design failure built in. The Paterson put Colt into bankruptcy.
Regards,
Richard
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Hi, tested the Paterson with different powders and no lube at all. Big mistake!! Triple 7 and Black Mz allowed good cylinder rotation, but needed some effort to wedge the barrel off the arbor. Olde Eynsford locked up both the cylinder and prevented barrel removal from the arbor. I needed to soak the barrel and frame to get the barrel off the arbor.
What was learned? Arbor lubrication helps and Ballistol seems to be the best to allow barrel separation from the Paterson arbor.
While not a useful experiment to solve my barrel removal issue, it's always fun to shoot the Paterson. I did notice that the Triple 7 had some good intensity (recoil) and would be useful for serious Paterson use. Even with 15gr of powder the wedge got battered again and will need to be hammered back into shape.
Live and learn, if you want a BP revolver that will shoot and shoot without issues, get the 1851. The 1851 is probably the best revolver that Colt ever produced.
While the Paterson has issues, it returns me to a time when the Comanche faced the Paterson. It's hard to tell you how I return to that time and take out Comanches on my steel targets. You probably have no idea of what I am talking about? That's Okay.
Regards,
Richard
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Hello Richard,
I believe you may have found the problem in that the arbor hole or perhaps the arbor itself is tapered in the wrong direction. This would allow the powder residue to load up deep inside the hole and then there'd be no clearance to separate the two parts. Perhaps tapering the arbor down a few thousands towards it's end might help the problem. And you're probably considering cutting a forcing cone in the barrel breech and grooving the arbor. Best to try one thing at a time like you're doing so you can really isolate the main culprit and then we can all gain from that knowledge.
It sounds like that wedge is made of dead soft steel and could use some heat treat.
Brad
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While the Paterson has issues, it returns me to a time when the Comanche faced the Paterson. It's hard to tell you how I return to that time and take out Comanches on my steel targets. You probably have no idea of what I am talking about? That's Okay.
Regards,
Richard
I think I know. While I've not had the opportunity to shoot it yet, Every time I cycle the action on my Winchester '66 I am transported back to overturned wagons, fending off waves of incoming charging savages on pinto war ponies.
Some book or film must be buried deep in my subconscious. (@+
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It's hard to tell you how I return to that time and take out Comanches on my steel targets. You probably have no idea of what I am talking about? That's Okay.
Regards,
Richard
Im confident that most all the guys here know just what youre talking about. We grew up knowing. Its genetic memory, American collective unconscious or something Jungian like that. Peace & Love for everyone ... but still ...
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Even with 15gr of powder the wedge got battered again and will need to be hammered back into shape.
Live and learn, if you want a BP revolver that will shoot and shoot without issues, get the 1851. The 1851 is probably the best revolver that Colt ever produced.
Regards,
Richard
As I previously stated, I have zero Paterson experience. I totally agree with your statement concerning 1851 Navy .36 "type" replicas, primarily Pietta (I have 8, primarily Confederate types). If the wedge is being battered when you shoot it, to me that is indicative of a problematic fit between the arbor length, arbor recess depth, and wedge. I see no other reason as to why the wedge is being battered if it is properly driven into place (as Sam Colt insisted) prior to shooting the gun.
Just a thought, but you might contact Mike Brackett http://www.goonsgunworks.com/ for his valued opinion.
Regards,
Jim
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While the Paterson has issues, it returns me to a time when the Comanche faced the Paterson. It's hard to tell you how I return to that time and take out Comanches on my steel targets. You probably have no idea of what I am talking about? That's Okay.
Regards,
Richard
I think I know. While I've not had the opportunity to shoot it yet, Every time I cycle the action on my Winchester '66 I am transported back to overturned wagons, fending off waves of incoming charging savages on pinto war ponies.
Some book or film must be buried deep in my subconscious. (@+
Thank goodness, I thought I was the only one...........
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Hi, this is a photo of an 1851 barrel on the left and the Paterson barrel on the right:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/46960150144_a07e158748_b.jpg)
Both barrels were aligned to have the ends of the barrel (forcing cone) aligned. Notice that the arbor hole for the 1851 is set back from the barrel end a much larger distance than the Paterson. Also notice that the end of the 1851 barrel that is against the cylinder chamber is much smaller than the Paterson barrel. No wonder why the Paterson is more prone to fouling compared the the 1851.
Measurements shows that the arbor and arbor hole diameter for both the 1851 and Paterson is the same. Using a hole gauge showed that the arbor hole in Paterson is the same diameter from hole entrance to hole bottom. There is a slight narrowing of the hole at the ends of the wedge opening in the Paterson barrel. As the recoil deformed the wedge, it also deforms the barrel metal at the wedge opening. When I get the reamer, the reamer should be able to make the whole length of the Paterson arbor hole uniform.
Regards,
Richard
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Hi, this is a photo of an 1851 barrel on the left and the Paterson barrel on the right:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/46960150144_a07e158748_b.jpg)
Both barrels were aligned to have the ends of the barrel (forcing cone) aligned. Notice that the arbor hole for the 1851 is set back from the barrel end a much larger distance than the Paterson. Also notice that the end of the 1851 barrel that is against the cylinder chamber is much smaller than the Paterson barrel. No wonder why the Paterson is more prone to fouling compared the the 1851.
Measurements shows that the arbor and arbor hole diameter for both the 1851 and Paterson is the same. Using a hole gauge showed that the arbor hole in Paterson is the same diameter from hole entrance to hole bottom. There is a slight narrowing of the hole at the ends of the wedge opening in the Paterson barrel. As the recoil deformed the wedge, it also deforms the barrel metal at the wedge opening. When I get the reamer, the reamer should be able to make the whole length of the Paterson arbor hole uniform.
Regards,
Richard
A picture speaks a thousand words. It looks like Sam Colt learned what not to do from the Patterson. Hope you come up with a fix.
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Looks like the forcing cone serves more than one purpose... ;)
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Looking at that (an eye-opener to me), maybe there is not a "fix". I think Colt got it right with the 1848 Dragoon (the Walker not withstanding) and went from there. Even the 1848 Pocket went through a few transformations (frame length, forcing cone length, trigger guard, et al) before becoming the 1849 Pocket, the most produced Colt pistol of the percussion era, and the ACW had nothing to do with that.
Regards,
Jim
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Hi, the battering of the wedge on front edge is due to the coining of the wedge by the front of the arbor slot. The force trying to separate the barrel from the frame is the reason for the coining. Most of the deformation on the wedge is on the smaller area of the arbor. That would be expected. In the past we have discussed hardening the wedge to minimize coining. Even tried to harden the wedge. Franky, I would rather have the low cost replaceable wedge deform than have the more expensive barrel wedge opening deform. Hammering it back into shape does work harden the wedge a bit.
My theory on why I see more wedge deformation in the Paterson compared to the other Colt models is that the larger surface area of the Paterson barrel end against the cylinder produces more barrel separation force due to gas pressure on firing than other Colt models.
On another subject, Uberti has a nice shiny Paterson grip finish, the Pietta is dull. While I have may Paterson apart I intend on Tung Oil refinishing the grip.
Regards,
Richard
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Hi, the used eBay 0.434" solid carbide ream arrived today. The ream was chucked up in a drill chuck, cutting oil put on the ream, and hand rotated into the barrel arbor hole. Very little metal was removed, just the oil on the ream black from sub thousandths metal removed. The arbor now slips into the barrel arbor hole as slick as can be.
One lube I haven't yet tried in the Paterson is KY Jelly. L@J L@J
Regards,
Richard
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You should have thought of K-Y BEFORE you reamed the hole................. ;)
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Hi, one of my Paterson's grips was given four coats of Tung Oil, rubbed with steel wool between coats. I think the grips came out nicely:
Now back to shooting it.
Regards,
Richard
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Now those Pietta grips look like they came from an Uberti revolver. I've always preferred the look of Uberti grips. Looking good Richard.
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I have to concur with Mike. Those grips look much nicer. Well done.
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Much better look, Richard! Kudos to you.
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Hi Guys, thanks for the kind comments. I took my living room display Paterson to do some work on it. After you do one gunsmithing job on a particular revolver, it's easy to repeat it. In less than 1/2 hour I had the arbor drilled and tapped for a arbor length set screw. I also checked if the 0.434 reamer for the barrel arbor hole would be helpful to this Paterson. The reamer fell right in. It seems that my newer (only 100 serial numbers higher) Paterson has a larger barrel arbor hole than the barrel arbor hole already reamed. So much for Pietta quality control.
I think that the fouling binding up of the Paterson is baked into the design of the Paterson. As Mike and scooby have previously said " the Paterson is what it is". Sometime one needs to live with design idiosyncrasies.
Regards,
Richard
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I also checked if the 0.434 reamer for the barrel arbor hole would be helpful to this Paterson. The reamer fell right in. It seems that my newer (only 100 serial numbers higher) Paterson has a larger barrel arbor hole than the barrel arbor hole already reamed. So much for Pietta quality control.
I would be curious to know the various manufacture date codes on your Pietta Patersons. Pietta commenced using CNC machining ~2000, so anything older than that compared to a CNC gun is like comparing a Baldwin apple to a Granny Smith apple.
Regards,
Jim
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Jim, can't speak for Richard but pretty sure both were purchased new within the past 2 years.
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Hi Jim, my first owned Pietta Paterson was purchased 1/2017. It has a date code of CN (2015). My second owned Pietta Paterson was purchased 8/2018. It has a date code of CS (2017). The serial numbers are only 100 apart. One can understand the lack of current production, minimal demand.
Regards,
Richard
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Hi, I measured the arbor and barrel arbor hole for my two Pietta Patersons:
CN (2015) arbor = 0.430". barrel arbor hole = 0.434", difference = 0.004"
CS (2017) arbor = 0.433". barrel arbor hole = 0.440", difference = 0.007"
Look at the barrel end of the Paterson and see that there is a reduced section next to the arbor hole to allow wedging the barrel off the arbor. This seems to show that fouling is inherent with the Paterson design.
Note, barrel on the left is an 1851 Pietta, the Paterson on the right.
Regards,
Richard
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Hi, Richard, does the single set screw function as both a barrel wedge adjustment and an arbor length adjustment?
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Hi Kirk, the set screw just is used to adjust arbor length. A 10-32 screw would provide too small a surface area for a wedge adjustment. A small area would batter the wedge. Also, I don't drill the set screw hole all the way through the end of the arbor. If it was drilled all the way though it would weaken the part of the arbor that has to take the pressure load on firing.
Regards,
Richard
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Hi, I came across a write up on the Paterson where fouling is discussed:
https://www.guns.com/news/review/colt-paterson-reproduction-by-pietta-is-a-worthwhile-experience
He found two things that can be done to reduce fouling. One is to increase the barrel/cylinder gap to the width of a playing card, (~0.011"). I had already discovered that a large Paterson gap is helpful to reduce fouling. The other is to use a non stick cooking spray on the arbor. Maybe something like PAM? I'll try PAM the next time shooting the Paterson and report back.
Regards,
Richard
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No reason PAM shouldn't work.
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PAM works fine - for about 18 shots, then it's gone.
Three words: White Lithium Grease.
Put it on Sunday morning and shoot all week.
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Three words: White Lithium Grease.
Put it on Sunday morning and shoot all week.
Hi G Dog, I already tried that, Lubriplate:
http://blackpowdersmoke.com/colt/index.php?topic=2178.msg32263#msg32263
Regards,
Richard
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Hi, I was watching the Movie "Texas" from the novel by James A. Michener yesterday. What was really a hoot at the end of the movie was seeing a shootout by actor Ricky Schroder using two Patersons. I really liked that movie in that all the firearms are historically correct. If you like Patersons, don't miss the end of the movie Texas.
Regards,
Richard
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Hi, I was watching the Movie "Texas" from the novel by James A. Michener yesterday. What was really a hoot at the end of the movie was seeing a shootout by actor Ricky Schroder using two Patersons. I really liked that movie in that all the firearms are historically correct. If you like Patersons, don't miss the end of the movie Texas.
Regards,
Richard
I've never seen that. I'll have to check NetFlix.
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Hi, I was watching the Movie "Texas" from the novel by James A. Michener yesterday. What was really a hoot at the end of the movie was seeing a shootout by actor Ricky Schroder using two Patersons. I really liked that movie in that all the firearms are historically correct. If you like Patersons, don't miss the end of the movie Texas.
Regards,
Richard
I've never seen that. I'll have to check NetFlix.
Hmmmm. Me either. Where have I been? I'll be checking Netflix this afternoon for it.
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Hi, I don't think that the movie "Texas" is on Netflix. I have the movie on DVD.
Regards,
Richard
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Hi, I have some good news to report on minimizing fouling with the Paterson revolver. In the past I have reported on fouling preventing easy barrel removal and fouling binding up the cylinder from rotating. Many different lubes and powders were tried with the same result, fouling so bad that barrel removal required a wedge be hammered in between the frame and barrel. No lubes tested worked well.
Today I shot five previously loaded Paterson cylinders with Black Mz BP sub. What was different today is that I used the cooking spray PAM to lube the arbor. The arbor was wiped between cylinders with a cloth and then sprayed with PAM. The PAM did the trick, the cylinders never dragged and the barrel slipped right off. There was zero binding fouling.
This raises a question, why does PAM work well and all the other lubes tried fail? What's different. PAM is a vegetable oil with a high smoking point. Most all the other lubes are petroleum based. I'll leave this question to some of our other scientists here, but bottom line, PAM is an answer to minimizing fouling in the Paterson revolver.
Regards,
Richard
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Good to know. I've always been told not to use and petroleum-based lubes with BP, which is why I always use lithium grease or Rem Oil.
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Hi Kirk, isn't lithium grease and Remoil petroleum based?
Regards,
Richard
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Hi Kirk, isn't lithium grease and Remoil petroleum based?
Regards,
Richard
Not sure, Richard. I'll have to do a little research.
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Hi Kirk, isn't lithium grease and Remoil petroleum based?
Regards,
Richard
Not sure, Richard. I'll have to do a little research.
Rem Oil is indeed petroleum distillate:
https://www.remington.com/sites/default/files/documents/RemingtonSDS-19913-Rem_Oil_2oz.pdf
Lithium grease is evidently not:
https://www.lubriplate.com/Lubriplate/media/Lubriplate/PDFs/PDS/Lubriplate/3_5_630_Series.pdf?ext=.pdf
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Hi Kirk, that Lubriplate link doesn't say it isn't petroleum based. Mineral oil is petroleum based and used in medical and food applications.
Regards,
Richard
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Hi, there has been a lot of discussion on Colt supplying extra cylinders for his revolvers. Most say that extra cylinders are a myth.
Dennis Adler's book "Colt Single Action from Paterson to Peacemakers, has many photos of original cased Patersons, most with and extra cylinder.