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General Black Powder => Ask The Experts => Topic started by: Zulch on October 12, 2021, 03:48:17 PM

Title: Cylinder turn marks and Cause?
Post by: Zulch on October 12, 2021, 03:48:17 PM
I have an old gregorelli/uberti 1851 circa 1962. When I bought the revolver this line that ran the full circumference of the cylinder was present. This is probably old hat to most. My question is, is it a bolt timing issue that can cause this?  The line is a very light surface etch (not deep). Look forward to the education guys and Thank you. 👍
Title: Re: Cylinder turn marks and Cause?
Post by: Hawg on October 12, 2021, 05:21:34 PM
It could possibly be from a bolt that's too tall but it's most likely from somebody letting the hammer down from half cock.
Title: Re: Cylinder turn marks and Cause?
Post by: G Dog on October 12, 2021, 05:58:37 PM
Good one, Hawg.  That piece has probably been "preowned" a few times.  Ring Around the Collar is often self inflicted by the less than prudent.
Title: Re: Cylinder turn marks and Cause?
Post by: Zulch on October 12, 2021, 06:16:41 PM
Hey Hawg and G Dog. Yes,bit is a  pre-owned gun. I knew you guys had an explanation. 😊👍 thank you both. So, it sounds like the bolt can ride high though? Thanks , Tim
Title: Re: Cylinder turn marks and Cause?
Post by: Hawg on October 12, 2021, 06:35:29 PM
Hey Hawg and G Dog. Yes,bit is a  pre-owned gun. I knew you guys had an explanation. 😊👍 thank you both. So, it sounds like the bolt can ride high though? Thanks , Tim

Like I said it can be but not very likely.
Title: Re: Cylinder turn marks and Cause?
Post by: Zulch on October 12, 2021, 06:43:26 PM
Hey Hawg and G Dog. Yes,bit is a  pre-owned gun. I knew you guys had an explanation. 😊👍 thank you both. So, it sounds like the bolt can ride high though? Thanks , Tim

Like I said it can be but not very likely.
Thanks Hawg.
Title: Re: Cylinder turn marks and Cause?
Post by: Captainkirk on October 12, 2021, 07:28:59 PM
Some of the things that can affect RATC are as mentioned, high bolt and letting the hammer down from half cock, also improper bolt timing/worn hammer cam or bolt leg. The bolt on a Colt should drop in the lead-in unless it's an oval bolt stop like Walker/Whitneyville or 1st Dragoon models. Also Remington NMA/NMN models should drop the bolt about half a bolt width before full engagement.
Title: Re: Cylinder turn marks and Cause?
Post by: 45 Dragoon on October 12, 2021, 07:31:37 PM
Probably the condition of the bolt head is as much a culprit as any. If it's the original part,  it is probably rounded over on the tall side (locking side) because of wear or attempts at tuning .  .  .  the tall side should have a sharp  (90°) edge (but broken). The good thing I see is that it is tracking in the center  .  .  .   as it should!!  It could also have happened as a bolt spring was failing or a hand spring was breaking.

Mike
Title: Re: Cylinder turn marks and Cause?
Post by: Zulch on October 13, 2021, 05:36:53 AM
Some of the things that can affect RATC are as mentioned, high bolt and letting the hammer down from half cock, also improper bolt timing/worn hammer cam or bolt leg. The bolt on a Colt should drop in the lead-in unless it's an oval bolt stop like Walker/Whitneyville or 1st Dragoon models. Also Remington NMA/NMN models should drop the bolt about half a bolt width before full engagement.

Morning Cap, Thanks for the input sir. This is a pre-owned and older (1962) 1851 replica. Don't know if that is of any significance. I am hoping it was merely from someone letting the hammer down at half cock position as you described. I need to pay close attention to see if it gets worse.  ^j)
Title: Re: Cylinder turn marks and Cause?
Post by: Zulch on October 13, 2021, 05:40:13 AM
Probably the condition of the bolt head is as much a culprit as any. If it's the original part,  it is probably rounded over on the tall side (locking side) because of wear or attempts at tuning .  .  .  the tall side should have a sharp  (90°) edge (but broken). The good thing I see is that it is tracking in the center  .  .  .   as it should!!  It could also have happened as a bolt spring was failing or a hand spring was breaking.

Mike

Mike, Good morning, I really appreciate your opinion and expertise very much. Would you recommend that I replace the bolt, bolt/spring and hand as a precautionary measure?
Thank you,
Tim
Title: Re: Cylinder turn marks and Cause?
Post by: Hawg on October 13, 2021, 05:59:12 AM
Some of those parts will require fitting. The hand definitely will. With it being an older model the bolt may need fitting as well. IMO if it ain't broke don't fix it.
Title: Re: Cylinder turn marks and Cause?
Post by: Zulch on October 13, 2021, 06:05:30 AM
Some of those parts will require fitting. The hand definitely will. With it being an older model the bolt may need fitting as well. IMO if it ain't broke don't fix it.
Hawg, thank you sir. It sounds like it could be an expensive venture?
Title: Re: Cylinder turn marks and Cause?
Post by: Hawg on October 13, 2021, 08:35:53 AM
Some of those parts will require fitting. The hand definitely will. With it being an older model the bolt may need fitting as well. IMO if it ain't broke don't fix it.
Hawg, thank you sir. It sounds like it could be an expensive venture?

Not so much expensive. You'll likely have to do it yourself. It would be a good lesson in gunsmithing. You would learn exactly how the parts work together. I still wouldn't do it until I had to tho.
Title: Re: Cylinder turn marks and Cause?
Post by: Captainkirk on October 13, 2021, 09:16:08 AM
Some of those parts will require fitting. The hand definitely will. With it being an older model the bolt may need fitting as well. IMO if it ain't broke don't fix it.

Hawg is spot-on here, Tim.
G&U guns are NOT the same as the later Ubertis and while some parts may fit, they likely need to be trimmed and/or fine tuned.
You are a lucky man to have a G&U. They are becoming quite the collector's item these days.
Title: Re: Cylinder turn marks and Cause?
Post by: Zulch on October 13, 2021, 10:02:31 AM
Some of those parts will require fitting. The hand definitely will. With it being an older model the bolt may need fitting as well. IMO if it ain't broke don't fix it.

Hawg is spot-on here, Tim.
G&U guns are NOT the same as the later Ubertis and while some parts may fit, they likely need to be trimmed and/or fine tuned.
You are a lucky man to have a G&U. They are becoming quite the collector's item these days.

Cap, Thank you sir. Roger that. I guess at the time I didn't realize what I was buying  )lI  I feel lucky to have it.  (@+
Title: Re: Cylinder turn marks and Cause?
Post by: Hawg on October 13, 2021, 10:06:33 AM
Awww crap Cap. I wuz gonna try to gyp him out of it.
Title: Re: Cylinder turn marks and Cause?
Post by: Zulch on October 13, 2021, 10:07:46 AM
Awww crap Cap. I wuz gonna try to gyp him out of it.

 :o Huh?  (7+" (7+" (7+"
Title: Re: Cylinder turn marks and Cause?
Post by: Captainkirk on October 13, 2021, 10:32:19 AM
Awww crap Cap. I wuz gonna try to gyp him out of it.

"Curses...foiled again!"
Gotta get up pretty early in the morning to get one over on me, Hawg! (7+"
Title: Re: Cylinder turn marks and Cause?
Post by: Hawg on October 13, 2021, 11:16:16 AM
Awww crap Cap. I wuz gonna try to gyp him out of it.

"Curses...foiled again!"
Gotta get up pretty early in the morning to get one over on me, Hawg! (7+"

Title: Re: Cylinder turn marks and Cause?
Post by: Zulch on October 13, 2021, 11:17:22 AM
Awesome picture Hawg.  (7&
Title: Re: Cylinder turn marks and Cause?
Post by: Clydesdale4x4 on October 13, 2021, 09:51:17 PM
I've done that to all my Remmie's.  :nocomment: