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Black Powder Pistols => "Brand X" => Rogers & Spencer => Topic started by: Navy Six on June 13, 2023, 09:44:54 AM

Title: Just One More?
Post by: Navy Six on June 13, 2023, 09:44:54 AM
In a previous post I mentioned the possibility of obtaining another Rogers & Spencer, one that might have been worked on by Tom Ball. Well, scratch that provenance. However, after a two month wait the owner did present a stock Euroarms model mfg 1989. A little surface rust and a  modified brass post front sight didn't deter me as the bore was bright and shinny and the lockup nice and crisp. However, at some point in the past someone tried to remove the mainspring by using a pair of pliers. I know that because they didn't bother to pad the front strap, leaving a 1/4" of nasty gouge marks. I started to turn the gun down but thought  "what else are they going to damage". So home it came with me and I will try my hand at re-finishing that damaged area since I can't live with that type of thing.
I have an interest in Rogers & Spencers and this makes the 6th one I own. Just can't turn one down, especially an orphan. I am cleaning up from the weekend Cowboy shoot so won't be able to tear the new one down until next week. At least the nipples came out already with no problem.
Title: Re: Just One More?
Post by: Zulch on June 13, 2023, 11:11:33 AM
That sounds great Navy Six!! Can't wait to see some pictures. Just curious here, what is it about the Rogers & Spencer guns that you love so much? I'd really like to hear. I do not own one.
Title: Re: Just One More?
Post by: G Dog on June 13, 2023, 12:59:37 PM
Six - it’s said that the chamber capacity for the R&S is significantly greater than 1860’s and Remington’s.  If so, how much more?

The screw attaching the trigger guard is the same that attaches the trigger/bolt return spring.  Is that a good thing or does it complicate reassembly?

I’ve read (somewhere) that Gen.  Joe Wheeler (formerly CSA) carried an R&S during the Spanish-American War and that a few were issued then.  Anyone have info on that.
Title: Re: Just One More?
Post by: ShotgunDave on June 13, 2023, 02:41:48 PM
You can't have too many! No such thing! And it's always good to rescue an orphan.
Title: Re: Just One More?
Post by: Navy Six on June 13, 2023, 04:31:09 PM
Zulch, I like Rogers & Spencers because they are generally very accurate, are not prone to cap jamming issues and because of the gas ring on the cylinder(like a ColtSAA) they run all day long without powder fouling causing problems. Also, the nipples are angled slightly outward making capping a breeze. Also plenty of room to load the front of the cylinder with loose powder or paper cartridges.
G Dog, I've never tried loading one to capacity but I remember others commenting the capacity was slightly less than a Remington--but don't quote me on that. The trigger guard screw doing double duty has never presented an issue, everything seems to line up pretty easy. The biggest issue is with the mainspring. It is usually on the heavy side (attaches like a Remington)so re-installing one can be a bear. Hence the ugly damage I reported when someone resorted to a pair of pliers on the gun I just acquired. The easiest way around it is to approach it like a Walker. Cock the hammer as far as she goes and tie down the mainspring with a couple zip ties. There are a couple of youtube videos showing assembly/dis.
ShotgunDave, I believe you have the world figured out!!!!
Title: Re: Just One More?
Post by: Zulch on June 14, 2023, 05:34:11 AM
Zulch, I like Rogers & Spencers because they are generally very accurate, are not prone to cap jamming issues and because of the gas ring on the cylinder(like a ColtSAA) they run all day long without powder fouling causing problems. Also, the nipples are angled slightly outward making capping a breeze. Also plenty of room to load the front of the cylinder with loose powder or paper cartridges.

Navy Six, thank you for your take on the R & S. I did not realize the cones were angled slightly outward. That does sound like a big plus!!
I watched this video. That is an awesome revolver! I understand better now why you like these guns.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_QvgRbbTPI
Title: Re: Just One More?
Post by: Marshal Will on June 14, 2023, 07:02:03 AM
Congrats on the new one. They're an interesting piece.

Getting those scratches out if the mainspring is a good idea. Scratches going across a spring can cause a stress crack to start. Polish them out longitudinally.

Thanks for that video, Z.
Title: Re: Just One More?
Post by: ShotgunDave on June 14, 2023, 09:02:25 AM

ShotgunDave, I believe you have the world figured out!!!!



My wife would probably disagree with you!
Title: Re: Just One More?
Post by: Navy Six on June 14, 2023, 01:37:34 PM
Congrats on the new one. They're an interesting piece.

Getting those scratches out if the mainspring is a good idea. Scratches going across a spring can cause a stress crack to start. Polish them out longitudinally.

Thanks for that video, Z.
Marshal Will, the nasty scratches are on the front strap where they are painfully visible. I guess the previous owner tried to compress the mainspring with pliers and the teeth dug into the blued frontstrap in several places. I am going to try approaching the damage like fixing a damaged screw head/slot and lightly tapping the metal back into place before resorting to any polishing and rebluing.
Title: Re: Just One More?
Post by: Marshal Will on June 14, 2023, 02:06:05 PM
Congrats on the new one. They're an interesting piece.

Getting those scratches out if the mainspring is a good idea. Scratches going across a spring can cause a stress crack to start. Polish them out longitudinally.

Thanks for that video, Z.
Marshal Will, the nasty scratches are on the front strap where they are painfully visible. I guess the previous owner tried to compress the mainspring with pliers and the teeth dug into the blued frontstrap in several places. I am going to try approaching the damage like fixing a damaged screw head/slot and lightly tapping the metal back into place before resorting to any polishing and rebluing.
Too bad someone got hold of it that way. It is correctable, though, and I'd approach it the way you said. I misunderstood your earlier post. I thought it was the spring that was scratched up.
Title: Re: Just One More?
Post by: 1stnamebassist on December 09, 2023, 03:15:34 PM
Six - it’s said that the chamber capacity for the R&S is significantly greater than 1860’s and Remington’s.  If so, how much more?

The screw attaching the trigger guard is the same that attaches the trigger/bolt return spring.  Is that a good thing or does it complicate reassembly?

I’ve read (somewhere) that Gen.  Joe Wheeler (formerly CSA) carried an R&S during the Spanish-American War and that a few were issued then.  Anyone have info on that.

I’m new to the forum, and recently picked up a stainless Roger’s & Spencer. It’s a beautiful solid gun! As far as capacity I was able to load 40 gr of graffs 3f with a .454 roundball and lube on top. That was max. I tried 43 gr and I had to file the roundball back some because the cylinder wouldn’t rotate. I saw a video by Blackie Thomas where he could put 50 gr of pyrodex with a roundball with no issue. I’m thinking maybe the one he bought had the chambers reamed some.Besides that the gun shot great and I’m very happy with it.Only issue I see is sourcing spare parts beyond screws and the trigger bolt spring. Sure would like to have a spare hand laying around in case the original gets messed up somehow.
Title: Re: Just One More?
Post by: Captainkirk on December 09, 2023, 04:34:46 PM
Well, since Pedersoli owns the production rights and seems to have little or no interest in resuming production of neither guns nor parts, you will probably have to watch the auction sites and pay the piper's price if something you want pops up for sale.
Are you sure it's stainless, and not the "Old West" aged finish version? I do not recall seeing a SS R&S, though Euroarms did produce the aged finish version for a number of years (which, IMHO, is better looking than the blued models!)
Anyway, we'd love to see pix of yours!
Title: Re: Just One More?
Post by: Hawg on December 09, 2023, 05:32:01 PM
I’m new to the forum, and recently picked up a stainless Roger’s & Spencer. It’s a beautiful solid gun! As far as capacity I was able to load 40 gr of graffs 3f with a .454 roundball and lube on top. That was max. I tried 43 gr and I had to file the roundball back some because the cylinder wouldn’t rotate. I saw a video by Blackie Thomas where he could put 50 gr of pyrodex with a roundball with no issue. I’m thinking maybe the one he bought had the chambers reamed some.Besides that the gun shot great and I’m very happy with it.Only issue I see is sourcing spare parts beyond screws and the trigger bolt spring. Sure would like to have a spare hand laying around in case the original gets messed up somehow.

Pyrodex compresses a lot more than bp but I don't know if it will compress that much.
Title: Re: Just One More?
Post by: G Dog on December 09, 2023, 07:13:03 PM
Fifty grains is what Thomas says his measure says.  Using .454 he got 1175 on his first shot.  That’s scootin.  432 ft/lb energy.

https://youtu.be/__dkWgQWwV0?si=GMLYF3dcAnWNPgVS
Title: Re: Just One More?
Post by: Hawg on December 09, 2023, 07:58:10 PM
Not all measures are created equally, just sayin.
Title: Re: Just One More?
Post by: 1stnamebassist on December 09, 2023, 09:23:18 PM
Sorry no photos, I have to figure that out. I guess my files too big or something. I did a search last week about Euroarms Roger & Spencer’s and I did find where it listed a few different stainless steel ones, some with engraving or target sights etc…. I’ll be darned if I can find it again! I did try a little cold blue under the loading lever and it did nothing which is a good indication of stainless steel.As far as photos I don’t use a computer anymore I do everything from my phone.Never had a problem loading photos before from my iPhone.
Title: Re: Just One More?
Post by: Zulch on December 10, 2023, 05:33:12 AM
1stNameBassist. I use an iPhone as well and had issues in the beginning. So my workaround is to take pics with the iPhone then forward the pics to an email. When the phone ask about what size would you like to send the attachment? I choose medium size. I then go to my email and save the picture back to my phone and it generally is a small enough file then to post to ColtCountry. I hope that helps.
Title: Re: Just One More?
Post by: Hawg on December 10, 2023, 06:45:06 AM
It's a whole lot easier on a computer, just sayin.
Title: Re: Just One More?
Post by: 1stnamebassist on December 10, 2023, 11:14:57 AM
1stNameBassist. I use an iPhone as well and had issues in the beginning. So my workaround is to take pics with the iPhone then forward the pics to an email. When the phone ask about what size would you like to send the attachment? I choose medium size. I then go to my email and save the picture back to my phone and it generally is a small enough file then to post to ColtCountry. I hope that helps.
Ok let me try that! Thank you for the suggestion
Title: Re: Just One More?
Post by: Hawg on December 10, 2023, 11:31:51 AM
Fixed it for ya.

Title: Re: Just One More?
Post by: Navy Six on December 10, 2023, 11:38:01 AM
Wow. From the photo the gun looks in new condition. Certainly a nice find. Hope you track down information on SS models. I've never seen one but do have a London Gray which I believe is simply polished steel. Pretty sure you are going to enjoy that Rogers & Spencer!
Title: Re: Just One More?
Post by: Captainkirk on December 10, 2023, 11:41:50 AM
A picture is worth a thousand words. That certainly does appear to be stainless! I would call that one helluva score, if so! The aged (London Grey) finish doesn't shine like that. That's a keeper, for sure!
Title: Re: Just One More?
Post by: Zulch on December 10, 2023, 12:30:27 PM
Sure does look stainless.
Title: Re: Just One More?
Post by: 1stnamebassist on December 10, 2023, 01:48:31 PM
Well I’m definitely happy with it! And as I said earlier it didn’t take cold blue at all which stainless steel won’t. If I ever find that link about the stainless models again I’ll post it here. So far no luck though!
Title: Re: Just One More?
Post by: Hawg on December 10, 2023, 02:43:44 PM
I found some for sale. Most are overseas but not all. What's the date code?
Title: Re: Just One More?
Post by: 1stnamebassist on December 10, 2023, 03:49:48 PM
It’s looks like it’s double struck but it appears to be BH or BM. Thanks for fixing my photo by the way!
Title: Re: Just One More?
Post by: Hawg on December 10, 2023, 04:00:34 PM
It’s looks like it’s double struck but it appears to be BH or BM. Thanks for fixing my photo by the way!

BH is 96, BM is 99. Looks like BH to me. Not sure why my pic came out pixelated. All I did was copy yours and rotate it.



Title: Re: Just One More?
Post by: 1stnamebassist on December 10, 2023, 05:06:11 PM
It’s looks like it’s double struck but it appears to be BH or BM. Thanks for fixing my photo by the way!

BH is 96, BM is 99. Looks like BH to me. Not sure why my pic came out pixelated. All I did was copy yours and rotate it.

It’s all good. It’s tough to tell in person let alone a photo, but I agree I believe it’s BH. Thanks for the research.
Title: Re: Just One More?
Post by: Captainkirk on December 10, 2023, 05:07:52 PM
Yes, double struck...which makes it all the more collectible
Title: Re: Just One More?
Post by: G Dog on December 10, 2023, 06:52:31 PM
Sometimes, it seems to me, that the notion of “collectability” is a bogus criteria by which to judge the inherent value of a firearm.  A collectable is worth more money.  That’s a good thing but tied to the marketplace and that’s just money and the standard of valuation is purely commercial.  It just becomes  another commodity.

A Barby doll that will sell for 5k is twice as “collectible” as a R&S that will go for only 2.5K.  If value is defined in terms other than money it’s clear which of those has the greater intrinsic worth.

I hope the double strike on bassist’s makes it worth a million bucks.
Title: Re: Just One More?
Post by: 1stnamebassist on December 10, 2023, 08:21:28 PM
I thought double struck only counted on coins and stuff like that!
Title: Re: Just One More?
Post by: 1stnamebassist on December 11, 2023, 06:28:15 AM
Sometimes, it seems to me, that the notion of “collectability” is a bogus criteria by which to judge the inherent value of a firearm.  A collectable is worth more money.  That’s a good thing but tied to the marketplace and that’s just money and the standard of valuation is purely commercial.  It just becomes  another commodity.

A Barby doll that will sell for 5k is twice as “collectible” as a R&S that will go for only 2.5K.  If value is defined in terms other than money it’s clear which of those has the greater intrinsic worth.

I hope the double strike on bassist’s makes it worth a million bucks.

That would be great if it were worth a million bucks! I’d probably pick up another Roger’s & Spencer!
Title: Re: Just One More?
Post by: Navy Six on December 11, 2023, 01:40:01 PM
You're going to want to pick up another Rogers & Spencer anyway!!
Title: Re: Just One More?
Post by: 1stnamebassist on December 11, 2023, 04:16:01 PM
You're going to want to pick up another Rogers & Spencer anyway!!

No doubt!