Colt Country | Home of The Almighty Colt

Recently (yesterday) I posted a question on another forum and got spanked very hard. So before I step on it here ... thought I better ensure the rules here concerning a subject I thought would be non existent in the gun world.

Now that I peeked somebodys interest , this is what happened;

In my quest to understand the fouling on my Miroku Winchester model 1873, I refered to this excellent rifle in the same way as I always have. What you may ask is this noxious name that has me ejected from the Cast Boolit forum forever? Betcha I now have your interest peeked huh?

My dastardly reference was as always "japchester".

I got called a bigot by another member over there for this common (last I heard) referance to differentiate between an American built Winchester and the Miroku built model.

Having no idea that this was an issue with anybody but this single TROLL , I reported him in hopes the moderator would interfere and remove his ass for being purposefully offensive and devisive as well as putting my post off subject therefor causing a lack of discussion on a subject that has me perplexed.

My entire post was deleted ... so ... I contacted the owner of the forum and simply asked why the post was removed (still having NO understanding of the obvious pantie tightening that my referance of JapChester had caused) I reposted my original question on another section of the forum (again not completely "getting" it).

That was last night. Going back to see the responses I get a short note that informs me that I have been kicked off the forum "FOREVER".

Sooo ... thought I better ask cap here how much a tightrope I would have been on had I asked my innocent question here on my fav forum.

To say that I am extremely disappointed puts it very mildly. Have we  descended to such a level that such references endanger us to be dismissed out of hand?

Tumbleweed's tumbling by. Slow! Everybody must be doing life ... allow me to say that this pastime is dangerous to your health.

MORE SHOOTING!!! Less life. Yep that is from a newly retired oldster.

     

Well I have been working on proper ammo that will shoot accurately from these 36 conversion cylinders.

We know the barrel bore is around .375 on most 51/61 or 1858 Navy's. Therefore we have all shot hollow base .38 spcl wadcutter ammo so the bullet expands enough to fill those .375 grooves. These work after a fashion ... however ... they are almost impossible loaded with BP. AND they need to be around 600 fps or so as the fragile hollow base will be distorted upon exit from the barrel.

I have long thought that .375 bullets should do well and loaded with black powder or fast smokeless powder with excellent results. Heeled bullets are the answer.

I have seen Mike Belevue's Utube on doing this but was less than impressed with his method as it is very involved and many steps.

Until recently however , I have been hung up on the how of crimping them in the case. As Mike points out, the bullets main body is the same diameter as the case it is intended to crimp. This interferes with the crimp on the heeled bullets. I have solved this mystery. For the 38 special case, if you use Lee's finger crimp die (factory crimp) AND use a flat plate in the rammer on a single stage press instead of a shell holder so the case goes up into the die far enough to allow the mouth of the case to be contacted by the fingers and then release it to allow the loaded case to drop from the die without sizing the bullet in any way. Sometimes a small stick is required to bump it back out.

This allows heeled bullets to be loaded AND crimped in place. This allows a bullet that is of a diameter that is required for the groove diameter and have chance for accuracy.

So acquired the needed Lee die for 357 mag ( only one they make) and have been messin round with it to crimp 38 spcl's on heeled bullets. I have what I hope is a workable system but alas they work in my Remington navy but are too long for my Colts.

My workaround will be to get yet another 357 mag die and work on shortening it enough so it will work with 38 long Colt cases. Have yet to do this yet but the thinkin is going strong. A pictorial will follow when I get a complete success to report.

Reason to begin this thread is to garner thoughts from you all on things I might be overlooking.

 

My question here concerning our beloved 1851 Colt navy is thus.

Why do we find the square back Colt the only navy that has been replecated by the Colt company.

I do not find ANY  original civil war Colts wearing this foolish square back finger gouger grip frame. ALL the 51's I find for sale and photo's of are all with the favorite round bow trigger guard ... vintage 51's that is.

I believe that the square back bow to be kinda rare in fact on vintage 51's.

Am I wrong here? Do I live under a bridge and remain un-schooled in this area. My most favorite revolver is delegated as being mostly of the square back bow on the trigger guard instead of the WAY MORE COMFY round trigger guard bow.

Just wish that Colt manufacturing would have made the exelent second gen revolvers in the most manufactured style as that of the hay day of the 51 Colts life.

Ok ok ... I will creep down off my box for now ... but ... I reserve the rite to submit yet other rants of stuff that enters my feeble mind and refuses to leave till I turn it out for others to marvel at.

HA 

PS I will explain my stance on model 1860 Army's with that most ridiculous  and RARE 2 extra button screws for holding the removable shoulder stock  that was only rarely found on vintage 60's ... just try to find any newly manufactured revolvers without these abonimations!

Ok done now.

  so have thought about this a bit. Even started doing the experiment myself but got derailed somehow ... nope can't remember what derailed me.

My intent was to compare loading and shooting paper cartridges in comparison to loading and shooting metal cartridges.

Letz take the 1861 navy 36 for the cap n ball revolver paper cartridges.

Letz take the 1872 open top in 38 special for the metal cartridges.

Now to even the playing field ... no special restrictions on "rolling and loading paper cartridges.

Further letz  restrict the 38 special loading to Lymans complete model 311 nut cruncher for the metal cartridges.

Timed event may look something like this;

Cleaning the metal cases
Sizing the 38's
Flairing the 38's
Priming the 38's
Powdering the 38's
Seating and crimping the bullets in the 38's
Loading the 38's in the 72 revolver
Ejecting the fired cases
Reload

The paper cartridges something like this;

Roll the paper cartridges
Powder the paper cartridges
Seat the bullet or ball in the paper cartridges
Dunk the bullet in melted lube
Load the paper cartridges in the 61 navy
Cap the nipples
Reload

Let us further stipulate that we load 50 of each. Shoot 50 of each and load 6 per loading of the revolvers.

I am betting that overall time spent on each style ... paper versus metal ... cartridges ... that the paper cartridges take less time to mess with.

I further would bet that loading lose powder, balls, lube OVER the chamber and capping takes less overall time then either.

Any takers on the experiment?

Be cool if we got three or four experimenters to offset a person that has a pat method.

What say yee ... been a little still round these parts lately.

Well ... taking my very life in my hands ... I removed those horrid small finger bow ... square backed ... uncomfortable grip frame and retrieved my old 1860 grip frame from an old rusted parts 1860 I got a long time ago and dusted them off for seeing how much work it would take to fit them to my 51 second gen frame.

Turns out that it made an entire day go by modifying them to fit half correctly.

First the grip frame was a bit longer along the frame and to the rear. Instead of modifying the brass grip frame, I surgically removed bits of wood to fit around the little ledge.

Not thinking about it ... I really should have been taking pictures of doing this for a show n tell ... BUT ... did not.

The next thing to do was to make the back strap fit the trigger guard like it should. Was a bit rough on the old rusty 60 I robbed it from. Bending it in just the correct places made it fir correctly.

The wood was proud by a bit right behind the trigger bow so took some off with a file here. The wood was small by 1/8th inch along the the brass trigger frame so instead of scrapping the project, I scribed a line and filed the brass round down to the line so that the wood looks like it fits better then it really does.

Stripping off the old cruddy finish, I began sanding and smoothing and blending.

 Pretty fun project and it will end with two of my favorite revolvers combined to make an outstanding revolver.

Pictures of the finished product to follow. An 1851 Colts revolver with the super fine 1860 grip frame. Best of the best for this pilgrim.

Next will probably be to install a dovetail and sight. Very fun stuff.

Well ... Saturday was my B-day ... and NEEDING a Remington navy revolver ... I bought me a Buff Arms Uberti Remington navy.

Now to watch the mail like a hawk and try not to act like an excited 63 year old kid!

Have wanted a Rem navy for some time even tho I have bought n sold several Rem Army's that bite my ring finger so much that selling them was all I could think about. Always liked the Remington revolvers except for that BUMPIN on my poor knuckle.

Hope the 36's lesser recoil will allow me pleasure instead of pain.