Mainspring Tension

[Captainkirk]

I think the "tension" screw is just a "hold it in place" screw.  After you get the hammer pull at the sought after tension, no real need to adjust it. I set the C&B hammer draw at 3 1/2- 3 3/4 lbs.  On Remies, loosening the main spring screw allows the "tuned" spring to fall out .

Mike
www.goonsgunworks.com

Depends on the maker, Mike.
Pietta puts their screw in a place where in only acts to anchor the spring. Armi San Paolo/Euroarms places it higher up; adding tension to the screw adds tension to the spring.
Not sure about Uberti, ASM or other makers.

[45 Dragoon]

Yap, your right. It's always nice when makers add there own "touch". It just confuses the issue.
The problem that it can have with an action stop is the amount of deflection at the hammer end of the spring. It can cause the spring to bottom out early/late  on the stop. That's not what you're looking for when you want the same gun every time you put it back together. Chalk one up for Colt !!!
 I may just have to start making a note of " number of turns after contact " with each "adjustable" version.

Thanks Kirk.
BTW, Howdy!!! (I'm gettin there!!) New feature I may add will make it a "target" model. I'll be in touch.(nothing to do with sights)

[remmie58]

I think the "tension" screw is just a "hold it in place" screw.  After you get the hammer pull at the sought after tension, no real need to adjust it. I set the C&B hammer draw at 3 1/2- 3 3/4 lbs.  On Remies, loosening the main spring screw allows the "tuned" spring to fall out .
Mike
www.goonsgunworks.com

With my Remmie, turning the screw did reduce the tension, but not enough (even with it as loose as possible, without being loose enough to fall out). That's why I say new spring (with less tension), then (not as much) screw adjustment.
Anyway, I checked out your site. Nice to have someone here who can tune professionally. Have you ever tuned for fast draw?

[45 Dragoon]

Hey Remmie58 and thanks for stopping by the site!

As far as the screw goes, I understand that you "can" adjust the tension but I believe the intention of the screw was/is to keep the spring in place. Just like the main spring screw on a Colt/ type revolver, you can loosen it and it will reduce the tension. That isn't how you adjust tension on a Colt/ type and I suspect the original intent in the Remie was just to mount the spring. Since the grip frame is integral with the rest of the frame, you don't have the access to a screw like in a Colt. So, when reassembling, how do you know when you are "there"? My whole thing is about precision and having the same gun every time you put it back together.

As for tuning for fast draw . . . . heck yeah!!! (Did you see the videos on my website?) I know Brushy is fanning  but the tune for fast draw is basically the same (its fanning one shot at a time) All of the guns I tune get the same tune you see in the vid. If you want one specifically for fast draw, I can do that.  Haven't seen anyone fan a Remington yet . . . . hmmmm. . .
( even though I can fan mine but it uses a conversion cyl. (I don't shoot C&B !! ))

Mike
www.goonsgunworks.com

[remmie58]

Hey Remmie58 and thanks for stopping by the site!

As far as the screw goes, I understand that you "can" adjust the tension but I believe the intention of the screw was/is to keep the spring in place. Just like the main spring screw on a Colt/ type revolver, you can loosen it and it will reduce the tension. That isn't how you adjust tension on a Colt/ type and I suspect the original intent in the Remie was just to mount the spring. Since the grip frame is integral with the rest of the frame, you don't have the access to a screw like in a Colt. So, when reassembling, how do you know when you are "there"? My whole thing is about precision and having the same gun every time you put it back together.
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Turning the screw made quite a bit of difference in tension -- but, not enough. I know that, with a reduced-tension spring, adjusting the screw would probably do the job. I can tell by the feel -- where the happy medium would be. Re. being "there", the only thing I wouldn't know is if there would be misfires because of possibly too little tension.
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As for tuning for fast draw . . . . heck yeah!!! (Did you see the videos on my website?) I know Brushy is fanning  but the tune for fast draw is basically the same (its fanning one shot at a time) All of the guns I tune get the same tune you see in the vid. If you want one specifically for fast draw, I can do that.  Haven't seen anyone fan a Remington yet . . . . hmmmm. . .
( even though I can fan mine but it uses a conversion cyl. (I don't shoot C&B !! ))
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Haven't checked out everything in your site yet. That's what I get for asking questions before I've done that. :-) I'll do it in the next couple says.
For fast draw, I'd be more interested in slap-cocking (not fanning) my Pietta Colt '60 Army w/short barrel. Trouble is that (the way it used to be, anyway), Ruger is the only gun used for slap-cocking because of stronger inner workings. Colts are used more for thumb-busting (not strong enough for slap-cocking). I slap-cocked my old Army San Marcos C&B Colt. Action was perfect for that; but, it didn't take long to break the bolt. When I replaced it, tho, I saw that it was made from cheap metal (easy to break). So, I guess I'm wondering (for the '60 Army) about replacing the mainspring (reduced tension), graduating the cylinder stops, & replacing the bolt with 1 made from better metal (& anything else that would need to be done). Whatdaya think?     

[remmie58]

Hey Remmie58 and thanks for stopping by the site!

As far as the screw goes, I understand that you "can" adjust the tension but I believe the intention of the screw was/is to keep the spring in place. Just like the main spring screw on a Colt/ type revolver, you can loosen it and it will reduce the tension. That isn't how you adjust tension on a Colt/ type and I suspect the original intent in the Remie was just to mount the spring. Since the grip frame is integral with the rest of the frame, you don't have the access to a screw like in a Colt. So, when reassembling, how do you know when you are "there"? My whole thing is about precision and having the same gun every time you put it back together.

As for tuning for fast draw . . . . heck yeah!!! (Did you see the videos on my website?) I know Brushy is fanning  but the tune for fast draw is basically the same (its fanning one shot at a time) All of the guns I tune get the same tune you see in the vid. If you want one specifically for fast draw, I can do that.  Haven't seen anyone fan a Remington yet . . . . hmmmm. . .
( even though I can fan mine but it uses a conversion cyl. (I don't shoot C&B !! ))

Mike
www.goonsgunworks.com

OK, I see you're doing some pretty innovative things. Very cool. Do you know about slap-cocking; and, do you think you can tune my '60 Army for it?

[45 Dragoon]

remmie58,
  If Bob Munden does it, yes. If there is something different than the fanning you see (on the vids on my site) or what Bob did, then I don't know what you're talking about (I googled it and didn't really see anything). The set up is the same as far as parts prep., surface contour. The timing is different for a fast draw gun. (Extending the approaches as well).
  The service I offer uses the same parts prep and attention to surface along with an action stop and bolt block. I set the timing to Colt factory spec. for normal use but the rest is set up for hard use/ occasional fanning. A full race gun is timed differently.

As for your question about your parts set up, all I can say is it might work. Surface contour, bolt face relief and much more is highly specialized.

I'm actually working on a "bullet proof" bolt set-up that would be more "Ruger" like. That will be a different service "package"

Mike
www.goonsgunworks.com

[remmie58]

remmie58,
  If Bob Munden does it, yes. If there is something different than the fanning you see (on the vids on my site) or what Bob did, then I don't know what you're talking about (I googled it and didn't really see anything). The set up is the same as far as parts prep., surface contour. The timing is different for a fast draw gun. (Extending the approaches as well).
  The service I offer uses the same parts prep and attention to surface along with an action stop and bolt block. I set the timing to Colt factory spec. for normal use but the rest is set up for hard use/ occasional fanning. A full race gun is timed differently.

As for your question about your parts set up, all I can say is it might work. Surface contour, bolt face relief and much more is highly specialized.

I'm actually working on a "bullet proof" bolt set-up that would be more "Ruger" like. That will be a different service "package"

Mike
www.goonsgunworks.com

Slap-cocking puts more stress on parts than thumb-busting, or even fanning, because greater force is exerted when locking into full-cock. With fanning, the trigger is already pulled; with slap-cocking, the hammer is slapped into full-cock before the trigger is pulled. So, that would be the issue. Now, maybe I could modify my draw from slap-cock to fan; I'd hafta think about that 1.
All that said, I wouldn't be competing with the gun; it would just be for my private use. And even then, I'd hafta decide if it'd be worth it, as, at 68, I have some performance issues. More than anything, this tuning stuff is propelling me back into the past. Still, it would be nice to have a fully-tuned gun.
Munden I saw win at the frog jump, when he was competing, back in the day. I learned "slap-cock & poke" from the Valley Gunhawks (San Jose, CA), intending to buy a racegun & compete (my reaction time was better than most), but realized I didn't really wanna shoot balloons with paper mache or wax. I wanted to shoot cans w/live ammo.; so, modified the draw into a safe 1. All the fast draw folks said, "Don't do it; you'll shoot yourself". But, when I described my draw, they all shut up.
Anyway, give me some kind of quote on price & turn-around time & I'll give it some thought. Nice to finally know that you're the Mike Brushy was talking about. :-)   

[45 Dragoon]

Remmie58,
 Sounds good ! I feel like the action stop would be the key as far as the slapping bit  (I'd put a really " heavy duty" stop in). I would also think the rest of what I do would be sufficient (this is the caliber of what I do anyway). Set the timing and there ya go!!  Sounds like a fun project.
I'll pm ya.

Mike
www.goonsgunworks.com
 

[remmie58]

Remmie58,
 Sounds good ! I feel like the action stop would be the key as far as the slapping bit  (I'd put a really " heavy duty" stop in). I would also think the rest of what I do would be sufficient (this is the caliber of what I do anyway). Set the timing and there ya go!!  Sounds like a fun project.
I'll pm ya.
Mike
www.goonsgunworks.com

OK, gimme a little time to see if I can talk myself into it. 
Also, I'd want some of the mods you're offering.

[45 Dragoon]

Ha!
 Ok. All the mods are part of the service. (Just so ya know)

Mike
www.goonsgunworks.com

[remmie58]

Ha!
 Ok. All the mods are part of the service. (Just so ya know)
Mike
www.goonsgunworks.com

Mike, did you know Munden? He greatly impressed me when I saw him compete over 50 yrs. ago. Although I didn't know why at the time, I remember telling myself, "Remember this guy's name". I don't know exactly how to say it, except that there was an air of greatness about him. Lots of charisma that he kept well under wraps with a calm, cool, collected, & casual attitude. It was obvious that there was some kind of dynamic dichotomy operating in this guy. And, it wasn't so much that I was impressed by his draw as by his methodic consistency. He was there to win (which he did, of course) -- no if's, and's, or but's. In other words, I felt that it was what you didn't see, more than what you did see, that defined him. I think some guys have tried to put him down because they're jealous. they don't have whatever it was that he did have. Not trying to come off like a fan -- just an impression that stayed with me (for a LONG time).       

[45 Dragoon]

Remmie,
 No, I never met him but I borrowed a coupla things from him for my service.  The reason I mentioned him was - if you knew who he was, you could tell me what you are looking for  and I could understand  (does that make sense? ).  I'm a car nut and grew up in a shop so I've always been a mechanical minded person.  It still amazes me how so few parts in a S.A. can be done this way and that way and end up with such a lite and smooth action. I tell folks just because they are so easy to control now doesn't mean you have to baby them. They are built like a tank!!  If they don't break, that's great but if they do, we know what to work on!!
 That's why I do the same set -up for all my customers. Many don't really know what to expect and I want all of them to receive the best and most reliable  revolver they've ever had. All told, each gun spends 8-10 hours in my hands . .  unless there are issues .

Mike
www.goonsgunworks.com

[remmie58]

Remmie,
 No, I never met him but I borrowed a coupla things from him for my service.  The reason I mentioned him was - if you knew who he was, you could tell me what you are looking for  and I could understand  (does that make sense? ).  I'm a car nut and grew up in a shop so I've always been a mechanical minded person.  It still amazes me how so few parts in a S.A. can be done this way and that way and end up with such a lite and smooth action. I tell folks just because they are so easy to control now doesn't mean you have to baby them. They are built like a tank!!  If they don't break, that's great but if they do, we know what to work on!!
 That's why I do the same set -up for all my customers. Many don't really know what to expect and I want all of them to receive the best and most reliable  revolver they've ever had. All told, each gun spends 8-10 hours in my hands . .  unless there are issues .
Mike
www.goonsgunworks.com

Do you have a waiting list?

[45 Dragoon]

Yes. If you will pm me your number, I'll call you at your convenience.

Mike
www.goonsgunworks.com