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Author Topic: Colt Signature Series 1851 Navy  (Read 12218 times)

Offline LonesomePigeon

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Colt Signature Series 1851 Navy
« on: April 30, 2017, 07:01:50 PM »
 I saw this gun on gunbroker with a relatively low starting bid of $454.99. At that price I could not resist putting in a bid and I was surprised that nobody else bid and I got it. It came with Colt Sig Series flask, mold, nipple wrench and cap tin as well as after market powder measure and capper. The ad did not show the Sig Series cap tin but it was included when I got it. The gun has some handling marks but it still had preservative in the bore and I don't believe it had ever been fired.
http://www.gunbroker.com/item/638102476

I fired it today and it groups well at 15 yards, about 6" above point of aim. The wedge slots and the frame pin holes appear to be slightly misaligned which makes the barrel very hard to get on and off. Performance of the gun seems fine but I hope the alignment issues do not put undue stress on the arbor.
 


 

Offline ssb73q

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Re: Colt Signature Series 1851 Navy
« Reply #1 on: April 30, 2017, 08:02:36 PM »
Hi Lonesome, nice looking revolver and nice group.

Maybe the pins alignment issue will ease with use? My new Paterson was difficult to remove and install the barrel from the frame for a similar issue. As I got more cycles on barrel removal and attachment, the revolver is getting easier to remove and reinstall the barrel. My son-in-low has a similar issue as you with his 1851 that is getting better with use.

Regards,
Richard
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Offline 45 Dragoon

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Re: Colt Signature Series 1851 Navy
« Reply #2 on: April 30, 2017, 08:32:11 PM »
L.P.,
  Nice looking Navy.  It should get better with repeated take downs. Just remember, the action parts are from the  '70's/'80's era and the arbor is short. That said, it's a great looking package!!

Mike
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Offline Fingers McGee

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Re: Colt Signature Series 1851 Navy
« Reply #3 on: April 30, 2017, 08:34:41 PM »
Congrats on the find .
Fingers (Show Me MO smoke) McGee - AKA Man of Many Colts; SASS 28564-L-TG, rangemaster and stage writer extraordinaire; Frontiersman/Pistoleer, NRA Endowment Life, Central Ozarks Western Shooters
Cynic: A blackguard whose faulty vision sees things as they are, not as they should be.  Ambrose Bierce

Offline Hawg

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Re: Colt Signature Series 1851 Navy
« Reply #4 on: April 30, 2017, 08:42:04 PM »
Most Colt clones are a little difficult to break down the first few times but it will get easier without resorting to filing parts to make them fit. Dragoon is right, the arbor is short and needs to be addressed.
Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy and tasteth good with ketchup.

Offline 99whip

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Re: Colt Signature Series 1851 Navy
« Reply #5 on: May 03, 2017, 08:23:22 AM »
Looks great LP.  I love the squareback models.

Offline LonesomePigeon

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Re: Colt Signature Series 1851 Navy
« Reply #6 on: May 24, 2017, 10:45:27 AM »
 So I have further examined this revolver and indeed the arbor is too fat for the arbor hole, also either the arbor, the arbor hole, or both are slightly oval because the barrel will not spin freely 360 dergees around on the arbor. I also measured the cylinder gap and it is huge, over .01, so I do not think it would be good to continue shooting it and just hope the arbor fit wears in.

 So my question is, would lapping be a good way to fit the arbor to the arbor hole? Or will lapping result in too loose of a fit?

It should be noted that the frame pins came out so they won't get in the way of lapping.

Offline Hawg

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Re: Colt Signature Series 1851 Navy
« Reply #7 on: May 24, 2017, 11:44:24 AM »
I wouldn't lap the arbor and you're not going to hurt anything by shooting it at least not if you fix the short arbor.
Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy and tasteth good with ketchup.

Offline LonesomePigeon

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Re: Colt Signature Series 1851 Navy
« Reply #8 on: May 24, 2017, 04:22:22 PM »
Well darn, I actually measured the cylinder gap and it is .02.

Offline sourdough

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Re: Colt Signature Series 1851 Navy
« Reply #9 on: May 25, 2017, 12:47:35 PM »
Well darn, I actually measured the cylinder gap and it is .02.

If I am reading your post correctly, that is a .020"gap? If so, I'll defer to Goon or Hawg.

First, that it a very nice looking replica London 1851 Navy 2nd Model Squareback, and fairly accurate to the original as the load-lever pivot screw enters from the right side and the cylinder stop-slots are rectangular. I have always been fond of the looks of a SB TG but not the silver plated TG and backstrap. The loading aperture on the barrel lug appears to be correct as well as the lever latch and catch, and it has no recoil shield cap groove (Swayze). The wood is nice but what's up with the diamond?

I understand that the arbor is short, but if the wedge is tapped in until wedge spring protrudes on the right side of the barrel you should have little or no gap. If you do have that huge gap, the wedge is too wide on the cylinder side and pulling the barrel away from the cylinder.

If that is the case, I would buy a spare Uberti wedge and experiment with sanding down that side of the wedge until it is a thumb-press fit, and then cold blue it. I have done that with all of my Pietta 1851 Navy type pistols but the Pietta arbors are not short. You might have to fit the arbor length to the barrel lug arbor hole first.

I am just a rank newbie here and I would solicit advice from some of the better informed members if I was you.

Good luck with your endeavor, sir.

Regards.

Jim





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Offline Captainkirk

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Re: Colt Signature Series 1851 Navy
« Reply #10 on: May 25, 2017, 01:31:34 PM »
I saw that too and wondered if he meant .002?
"You gonna pull those pistols, or whistle Dixie?"

Offline 45 Dragoon

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Re: Colt Signature Series 1851 Navy
« Reply #11 on: May 25, 2017, 03:04:34 PM »
Ok,
 You can't measure the barrel/cylinder clearance on an open top that has a short arbor.  Further more,  if the arbor is too fat for the arbor hole, how in hell did they ever put it together?! Doesn't matter either if the barrel assy won't rotate 360, 180, or  even 45 degs. You have "runout" on arbors and in drilled arbor holes so how well a barrel assy will or won't rotate fully or at all, is a moot point. 
  Remove the wedge screw, drive in the wedge. Is the cylinder locked up?  You have a short arbor. That's the test.
  A clearance of .02 is big enough to throw a cat through!  (But, that can't be an accurate measurement until the arbor issue is taken care of. I just am not a cat person!  (7+" )

  Fix the arbor first (before you shoot it any more) and you'll have less to fix later.
 Then you can fix the wreck inside!! Lol!!  The parts in all the Colt "gens." or "series" are terrible at best! They can be fixed though and made into very nice shooters that work as well as they look ( if not better ).

Mike
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Offline ssb73q

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Re: Colt Signature Series 1851 Navy
« Reply #12 on: May 25, 2017, 03:18:38 PM »
Hi Lonesome, is this your first Uberti parts revolver? Test the gap as Mike suggests, from the wedge just starting in to hammered in (soft faced hammer please) as far as you can. You shot a good group so the cylinder must have rotated 360 deg.

IMO considering the potential value of your revolver, I highly recommend that you send it to Mike for a look over. However, I don't recommend any mod that permanently modifies the revolver unless you intend to shoot the hell out of it and forget about it as a collectable. 

Regards,
Richard
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Offline Captainkirk

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Re: Colt Signature Series 1851 Navy
« Reply #13 on: May 25, 2017, 03:23:59 PM »
IMO considering the potential value of your revolver, I highly recommend that you send it to Mike for a look over.

I second that. Probably the best money you'll ever spend.
"You gonna pull those pistols, or whistle Dixie?"

Offline 45 Dragoon

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Re: Colt Signature Series 1851 Navy
« Reply #14 on: May 25, 2017, 06:58:58 PM »
Well !!
 Thank you Richard and Captain!!


L.P. , I would be glad to give it a look over and my suggestions.

Mike
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