Paper cartridge V metal cartridges

[bigted]

Well using my Lyman 311 nut cracker and without cleaning the brass.

I ran 10 through the process, timing each process individually and then added them up for 10, then multiplying times 5 for 50 loads.

Kinda surprised after adding everything together. I did not add the 311 setup between stages either.

Decapping
Sizing
Flairing
Priming
Powdering
Seat and crimp bullet

These operations ran 54 minutes for the 50 loads.

Busy busy so may have to wait for timing the paper cartridges.

No I agree with the sentiment of shooting sports not being any kinda timed event. I also do my hobby for relaxing and escape from normal life. My idle curiosity is only that ... idle curiosity. I have heard ... as many of us have ... [I just dont have time for cap-n-ball revolvers] and just have always wanted to have a time table comparison to answer this reply.

More news later. This is a fun endeavor. Hope others are having as much fun with this one as I am   

[Miguel Loco]

Maybe I'm just lucky here in Arizona, but I just used up some paper cartridges yesterday that had been on my shelf over 2 years. The Dance fired them all perfectly......

[bigted]

I live in western Oregon where we get much rain and humidity. I have also had paper cartridges made of cig paper and the ball end dipped in my wax/vasoline mix melted. None of my Ol E 2 or 3 F cartridges have failed me after setting in my shed for well over a year.

If there is just the barest care taken with them, they should go the distance.

[Miguel Loco]

I live in western Oregon where we get much rain and humidity. I have also had paper cartridges made of cig paper and the ball end dipped in my wax/vasoline mix melted. None of my Ol E 2 or 3 F cartridges have failed me after setting in my shed for well over a year.

If there is just the barest care taken with them, they should go the distance.

That's been my experience as well. I use curling iron papers and nothing to seal them. Just roll 'em and go. But we are just a tad bit drier here most of the time....except our Monsoon season which is usully less than 3 months.

[mazo kid]

I haven't had time to do any paper or brass cartridge loading lately. But, another question...in your "competition" are you counting time to cut the paper cartridges? I use the curling end papers and if I don't cut them to size, they have excess paper. I made a template to cut them to size. Kind of like the clean brass cases, maybe start with the cut-to-size papers? That would seem to make sense.

[bigted]

I haven't had time to do any paper or brass cartridge loading lately. But, another question...in your "competition" are you counting time to cut the paper cartridges? I use the curling end papers and if I don't cut them to size, they have excess paper. I made a template to cut them to size. Kind of like the clean brass cases, maybe start with the cut-to-size papers? That would seem to make sense.

The way I roll my cartridges is easy peasy and really NOT the traditional cut n paste style from yesteryear.

My procedure uses a tapered former where I roll cig papers around my former and lick the gummed edge to seal it around the forming stick. Then the small tail on the bottom gets a slurp to glue over the end of the tapered stick ... this produces my cartridge lickety split 🙄. Now I powder them followed by dropping the ball on the powder. Now I twist the paper over the ball to seal it in the cartridge. Next I trim the twisted paper off close to the ball ... followed by dunking the ball end in melted lube. After hardening, the now lubed cartridge is ready to load n shoot.

I will get my bunn's in gear and time my procedure for rolling my cartridges using Zig Zag cig papers.

After this I intend to compare smokless against BlackPowder loads in the open top cartridge revolvers and 1873 SAA.

[bigted]

Not forgotten. Just got busy busy with this opening and the economy letting lose a bit. Making hay while the sun shines so to speak.

What a STRANGE freakin year !!! 

[TheOutlawKid]

Hello mr.navy six! You make paper cartridges just like i do...and my lube disks are very stiff... 1:4 to 1:6 ratio of tallow to beeswax by weight. I never get any lube bleeding into my paper and my fouling stays soft. I did a write up on a different forum. Maybe i should do one here?

[ShotgunDave]

If you would be so kind, we'd love to see your write up!

We love helpful information here.

[TheOutlawKid]

Here goes nothin..First i make the paper tube of the cartridge by wrapping paper around a gauge pin. I use .360 or .362 for my .36 cal paper cartridges
I then scoot the tube up from the gauge pin so that i can fold it over...

[TheOutlawKid]

Then i fold over...Then i add glue to the folded over edge.. I use a nitrocellulose glue called Duco Cement but a glue stick works too if its all you got. Once glue is added i press the cartridge tube onto a thin rice paper disk or single ply toilet paper disk. I like using red rice paper disks so that i know visually that its the side that goes towards the nipple.

This is what it looks like inside when the empty cartridge hull is completed..and pics of the outside.

[TheOutlawKid]

heres some cartridges without a bullet so i can choose what bullet i want to use at the time. It consists of powder/wax paper disk/thin lube disk/wax paper disk/ thin cardboard disk. I really feel the cardboard disk really helps with the gas cutting and loss of pressure...especially when the lube disk is right behind it sealing the edges around it when its being fired down the barrel.

[TheOutlawKid]

 the wax paper is to keep powder contamination in check. Although i use a very stiff lube (1:3 to 1:5 mutton tallow to wax by weight) its very unlikely it will contaminate powder but i do it just in case the cartridges come into contact with prolonged heat such as kept in the car on a sunny day. Not to mention i absolutely hate wasting powder and i hate placing any type of lube against the powder because the powder will stick to it and if you find some lube cookies or lubed felt wads after being shot out then you can usually find unburnt powder stuck to them...and i like consistency in my shots...so if i put 20 grains of powder by weight then i want to be sure the entire 20 grains is burnt up pushing out my bullet...not 19 grains burnt and 1 grain left unused stuck to my lube disk. I put a wax paper layer between my lube disk and cardboard disk too as i dont want the cardboard disk slowly obsorbing any lube..not mention it would undo any glue i placed on the cardboard disk thats used to seal my paper cartridge when i fold it over the cardboard disk to seal it shut. First i pour my powder into the cartridge hull then this is the order (from left to right) i place over the powder. Wax paper, thin lube disk, wax paper, card. This method takes almost no space at all.

[TheOutlawKid]

 Here are some i made with a bullet attached. I made my own version of the old remington and colt cartridge works bullet sols in the 1800s. Its basically almost the same design only instead of pointed they have a wide flat meplat. The colt version has a lube groove thats slightly largee than original and the remington version has no lube groove. I mainly use RAW rolling papers. You can see the lube disk inside the cartridge.

[TheOutlawKid]

Just in case any are wondering about the bullet...
Well as some of you all may know i am a huge fan of the .36 cal colt navy and its history and im even a bigger fan of conicals with wide meplats and paper cartridges. Back in the 1850s-1870s Colt and Remington both made molds to sell with their guns and the molds usually consisted of a round ball with a pointed conical. Colts conical had a grease groove while remingtons conical didnt. I had accurate molds make me a mold with a design similar to those pointed conicals only they have flat wide meplats instead of the traditional point. The wide meplats measure .255 for my colt cartridge works design and .265 for my remington copy. The colt design (the one with a grease groove) measure .500 inches tall and .380 at the widest and weighs 140 grains, while the remington type design (no grease groove) is .480 tall , .380 wide, and weighs 136 grains. Both , like the originals, have a heel so that a paper cartridge can be attached. I havent tried these out but gave some to a friend to try and said they were more accurate than round ball and hit with authority. Very comparable to kaidos .36 conical as far as accuracy goes...and we know that design is more accurate than round ball. Heres some pics of my design ..