Pointed Bullets and Paper Cartridges

[mike116]

I took the opportunity to shoot a little bit last week.   My range opportunities are limited these days so I decided to see what the new Johnston & Dow bullets and paper cartridges would do.       http://erasgonebullets.webstarts.com/index.html

I tried out three different types of cartridges...  pull tab type with the paper twisted over the bullet,  twisted tail type, and the more traditional envelope style with the bullet glued to the paper.   All cartridges were loaded with 30 grains Goex 3F and 216 grain bullet cast from the Johnston & Dow replica bullet mold made by Eras Gone Bullet Molds.   I also included a lube cookie in each cartridge.   


Closer look at each type




All types were easy enough to load with the Pietta Remington the easiest of all.  This is due to the fact I modified the loading window in order to accommodate the tall pointed bullets. 
 

I also had to reshape the rammer in order to avoid deforming the pointed bullets.  I used a tapered drill bit and then fine tuned the shape with a cone shaped Dremel bit.
   
   

Loading on the Pietta 1860 model takes a little more finess but it is not difficult.   If you pay attention then it will go smoothly.   I had to replace the Pietta loading lever assembly with one from an Uberti 1860.   The entire loading lever assembly from an Uberti is a direct swap with the Pietta loading lever assembly.   The Uberti rammer is already a deep pointed profile that accommodates pointed bullets with no modification.

Loading the Uberti 1860 was also easily accomplished and no modifications were necessary.

When it comes to performance of the Johnston & Dow bullets I found that more needs to be learned.   The Pietta 1858 did not shoot them well.  I had trouble hitting a 10 inch gong target at 25 yards from a bench rest,  I never did get a good group with the Remington. I suppose some experimentation with loads is in order to see if the Pietta '58 can be coaxed into shooting the Johnston & Dow bullets with any accuracy.        The Pietta 1860 handled the bullets really well with 3 inch groups from a rest at 25 yards.   The Uberti 1860 liked the pointed bullets as well with 3 to 3 1/2 inch groups.
After shooting up quite a few of the paper cartridges I shot a few rounds from each revolver with loose powder and bullets only.   The results were pretty much the same with the 1860 models doing well and the Remington fairing poorly.   I used 30 grains of loose powder for these rounds too.  In hindsight it may have been better to try some other loads.

Edited to say.... all photos posted courtesy of Flickr.

[mike116]

Posted this a week ago.....   only 30 views (5 from me) and ZERO replies.    I didn't think there would be so little interest.

[99whip]

Mike,

Have you shot any conicals using the Lee moulds?  If so, just wondering what aspects of the Eras Gone bullets that you like better, aside from the fact the they are actual representations.  Do they perform better, load easier, any difference in accuracy, etc?  I've been thinking I'd like to try them in .36 or .44 but haven't bought a mould yet. 

Are you pleased with the 3 inch groups the Armies produced or think they should get better? 

Great photos.  Glad you made it out.

[mike116]

Whip,   The historical aspect is exactly why I put some work into modifying revolvers and making cartridges.   I have used other conical bullets and usually prefer to shoot round balls.   I don't really worry about pin point accuracy,  just want to hit where I'm pointing.   I think the Eras Gone bullets can be made to shoot better than 3 inch groups but will probably need the load reduced down to 20 grains or so.   The cartridges made during the Civil War averaged only 22 grains for .44 cal revolvers.   I like more powder than that.   
There is really no advantage over the LEE 200 or 220 grain conicals.   The Eras Gone bullets are harder to load (.460 diameter) and your rammer needs to be nearly perfectly shaped to avoid deforming the bullets. 

[Hewy]

My experience with pointed bullets, is conicals cast from a Lee mold. Did not try a total paper cartridge,
rather made paper envelope of powder and wad and loads bullet on top. Cannon method ?
Did not notice any deforming from ram on Remington. I may have only loaded mostly off the gun.
Like you I shoot  to hit POA and found not much difference , better or worse, than round ball.
Will try them in a Pietta 1860.

[99whip]

Thanks Mike,

I was a history major in college so being that they are historically accurate the Era's Gone bullets definitely are appealing to me.  I mostly shoot round balls, but conicals are fun to experiment with.   Pretty neat holder you made for your guns in that first photo, really dense foam or plastic?

[mike116]

I'm always looking for things that lead backward in time rather than forward.   Eras Gone owner Mark Hubbs is a historian that collects relics and writes historical fiction.   I think he did a good job putting out a modern product that replicates a 140 year old idea.

I picked up that gun stand at a gun show.  A guy that sells gun safes had them at 2 for $10.   

[washbuster]

I've shot my bullets with 20 gr. 3f swiss and were very accurate

[mike116]

Yep washbuster,   I read the posts and watched the video.    I figured 20 grains would tighten up the groups some.   I just don't like to go quite that light on powder.    I'm going to see what 25 grains does next time.   30 grains Goex 3F is a really tight squeeze in the 1860s anyway.   It kind of defeats the purpose of the cartridges (fast and easy loading) when you have to work so hard to seat the bullet deep enough.
If 25 grains in the 1860 maintains a 3 inch group I'll be able to live with it.

[Hawg]

Do the molds come with handles?

[mike116]

Yes they do Hawg.   Just like most of the Lee moulds do.

[Captainkirk]

Funny, Mike...but this is the first time this thread popped up in my unread listing and it's an old thread. Great info you posted there!