Sharpening 420HC

[valforgettaboutit]

Hey guys,

I'm fan of Buck knives (I carry a Bantam or a 110 depending on mood) however I'm having difficulty getting the 420HC blades to what I would consider sharp. Using my Smith's pocket sharpener I can get the Bantam "working sharp", like sharp enough for small cutting jobs like cutting down boxes, loose strings, etc but even for letting opening it'll tear more than cut and pass the "paper test". The Smith's has done wonders getting kitchen knives pretty done sharp but isn't quite doing it on the 420 HCs. Any advice from you knife guys? I've looking into hand sharpening using stones, but I have no idea what grit to use. I know the low numbers are for setting edges (which I might do as practice on some beater pot metal knives) but I don't want to mar up the otherwise nice edges on the Bucks.

Let me know what you all think!

[Len]

the composition of the 420HC:
Carbon              .45%
Chromium       13.00%
Manganese      0.80%
Silicon              0.80%
Nickel               0.50% or less
What bothers me is the Cr and Ni. In these low concentrations it kind of starts getting towards stainless. I think this is a surgical steel. You can't (in my experience) re-sharpen a scalpel blade.
They can have a high hardness (HRC around 55), but hardness in it self doesn't mean it sharpens well (I think the factory sharpening is done electrolytically or laserwise or otherwise). We need a balance between the ferrite (the glue) and the carbides (the hard particles). The honing/stoning after the rough sharpening is meant to remove the ferrite "glue" and expose the harder stuff. Stainless is hopeless in this respect.
Try finding some good old pure carbon steel with C% around .50 to .60.
Just my two-pence thoughts.

[valforgettaboutit]

Thanks Len! The 420HC is the standard steel for Buck produced knives, and they do advertise it as a stainless. They offer them in higher carbon steels but it’s at a premium.

[Hawg]

I've never had any luck getting a stainless or near stainless blade anywhere near as sharp as I can a high carbon blade. The upside is when you do get it as sharp as is possible it stays sharp longer but I still prefer high carbon. Who cares if the blade turns dark?

[Powder Burn]

Trouble with stainless blades is stainless is soft and most try to over sharpen the edge but all they are doing is constantly rolling the wire edge from one side to the other with each flip of the knife. When I sharpen a stainless kitchen knife,I never go past a 2000 grit water stone and most times I never go past a 1000 grit water stone. One must be efficient in removing the burr created by stropping. I love carbon steel blades. You can get those babies sharp. In fact, my field dressing knives are carbon steel and the warm blood just gives them a nice patina.

[Len]

So, to sum it all up, so called "stainless" (which among metalurgists does not exist, they call it slow-rusting) "stainless" is not good for a sharp blade. Period.

[Hawg]

So, to sum it all up, so called "stainless" (which among metalurgists does not exist, they call it slow-rusting) "stainless" is not good for a sharp blade. Period.

It depends on what you want to call sharp. I've seen people brag about a knife being sharp but you could run your finger down the blade and not get cut. Try that with my carbon steel Case Trapper and you better have a band aid handy.

[Powder Burn]

Oh yes, what Hawg said. Don't get me wrong, there is stainless and then there is stainless. I have many Case knives and you wouldn't dare run your finger on the edge. I also have quite a few Great Eastern pocket knives made from carbon steel. Carbon steel is easier to sharpen, doesn't take as long to sharpen and to hone but can be sharper then stainless. Both stainless and carbon are great knives and both will get the job done. I fell into a big , deep rabbit hole with Japanese kitchen knives which are made of various steels which also led me into another deep rabbit hole of water stones and natural stones for sharpening them. It can be an addiction, which I found it to be. With some of my Japanese kitchen knives I can thin slice a sitting tomato without holding it or even moving the tomato. Now, that is sharp. By the way, Case also makes some nice carbon bladed knives as well. I have some.

[Powder Burn]

Just a small example of the rabbit hole.

[Powder Burn]

Did Hawg say something about Trappers ? 

[Hawg]

I gots me one of them yaller hanneled ones. I had a beautiful abalone handled one but I lost it. I went to buy another one just like it and wow has abalone gone up since the 80's. As far as kitchen knives go I can't afford the Japanese knives. I wish I could. I use cheap ceramic knives from Walmart. They're probably not as sharp as a Japanese knife but they will cut you deep if you're not careful and they stay sharp for a long time.