Get your kicks on Route '66

[Captainkirk]

Dave, both bullets look nice, and reasonably priced. You might want to check and see if the lubes are BP compatible, though.

One thing I forgot to mention; if loading for .44-40 and BP, you may want to consider a compression die.

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/978844/montana-precision-swaging-black-powder-compression-die-with-stem-44-caliber

You can also buy the BACO plug to fit your RCBS dies, but not 100% they will fit the Cowboy dies. If I find out for sure I'll let you know.

https://www.buffaloarms.com/44-40-wcf-compression-plug-for-lyman-rcbs-bullet-expander-die-body-van4440rcp

[ShotgunDave]

Thanks for the links Capt. That's something I didn't think of. A compression die is a good idea. I bet it helps saving the necks on the 44-40 case.

[Captainkirk]

Thanks for the links Capt. That's something I didn't think of. A compression die is a good idea. I bet it helps saving the necks on the 44-40 case.

What it does is compress the dropped powder in the case to a universal distance in each and every case, as well to a universal amount of compression. This allows you to maximize case space (it's quite a stretch to get 40gr of powder into a .44-40 case, from what I hear, especially 2F) and hence allow you to seat your bullet on a wad over the charge. I'm sure you are well aware that BP needs to be compressed without air space between the bullet and powder (unlike smokeless); doing so in BPCR can have bad (if not disastrous) results. The compression die allows repeatable, exact results with BP. Compressing the powder using the bullet does not work well, if at all, and is highly discouraged. Some get by using a marked dowel rod to compress the powder to a pre-measured mark, but it's nowhere as uniform as using a compression die.
Since I do intend to load and shoot black powder in my Sharps, I will be buying a compression die for that cartridge (.45/70). I did read a few negative reviews on the Montana compression die; one feller said he had to chase the threads on the outside of the die to get it to thread into his press. If the BACO compression plug will fit my .45/70  Cowboy die, I might opt for that one, although I would prefer to have a dedicated comp die without having to disassemble anything and may end up just buying the whole shebang.

[ShotgunDave]

Oh yes Capt, I'm very aware of the catastrophic results of space between the powder and bullet. When I load my .45's I use a dowel to compress the powder before I seat the bullet. The last thing I want is a hand grenade.

What I was referring to before is, the tendency for the neck to crush when loading 44-40. I've read a lot about it and some guys seem to have the problem a lot, and others seldom or never do. I was thinking that if the powder is compressed before seating the bullet, then the bullet will enter the case mouth much easier and neck crushing will be minimized. Does that make sense? I've never loaded bottlenecked cases before.

[Captainkirk]

Yes, makes sense. I've been reading about that as well. A lot of the problem will likely be alleviated by using the Cowboy dies as the expander die sizes the case to different dimensions than standard .44-40 dies, which are generally intended for jacketed or semi-jacketed bullets. If you read the customer reviews for the RCBS cowboy dies on the Midway site, a lot of customers have commented about this issue...enough for me to order them. I can't imagine having a good compression die could hurt matters any way you look at it.
Have you slugged your barrel yet? I would imagine if you could use the standard .44-40 bullet (.427) that would also help to not crush case necks.
And no, while I've loaded plenty of bottleneck rifle ammo, I would really consider the .44-40 a pistol cartridge rather than a rifle cartridge. It will be a learning experience for me as well.

[ShotgunDave]

Unfortunately I don't have my rifle in hand yet. It is actually being shipped today to my FFL guy. So once it arrives, it will be another 10 days before I get it, because of wonderful Kalifornia's waiting period. So it will be about the 30th before I have it.

[Captainkirk]

Unfortunately I don't have my rifle in hand yet. It is actually being shipped today to my FFL guy. So once it arrives, it will be another 10 days before I get it, because of wonderful Kalifornia's waiting period. So it will be about the 30th before I have it.

That is pure torture.
Illinois is trying hard to outdo Kali as being #1 gun-hater haven in the US. I had to fill out background check paperwork to buy the Santa Barbara...a black powder revolver!!!!

[ShotgunDave]

Unfortunately I don't have my rifle in hand yet. It is actually being shipped today to my FFL guy. So once it arrives, it will be another 10 days before I get it, because of wonderful Kalifornia's waiting period. So it will be about the 30th before I have it.

That is pure torture.
Illinois is trying hard to outdo Kali as being #1 gun-hater haven in the US. I had to fill out background check paperwork to buy the Santa Barbara...a black powder revolver!!!!

Oh man! Even we don't have to do that. Black powder guns are still under the radar. At least for now.......

But you're right, waiting is pure hell!

What makes me the maddest is, they do an instant background check. They know right then if you are eligible to own a firearm. You could walk out with it. But they have the 10 day wait as a "cooling off period". Ridiculous.

[Captainkirk]

Legally, I can still buy a BP gun without going through an FFL. But all the FFL shops are forced to play the game, even with BP.
One of the neat features of my LGS is they allow layaways...put your pittance down, they run the BG check right then and there...and when you come to pay off your gun, you can walk right out of the store with it.
"Cooling off period"...how stupid is that, really? Just another gimme brown-nose tactic for the libs showing them how much we are trying to play ball with them.
I wonder how many angry people have actually purchased a gun and used it in anger the same day, seriously? If you are really intent on shooting someone, do they really think three days (or 10, now) will make you change your mind? Not likely.

[ShotgunDave]

Legally, I can still buy a BP gun without going through an FFL. But all the FFL shops are forced to play the game, even with BP.
One of the neat features of my LGS is they allow layaways...put your pittance down, they run the BG check right then and there...and when you come to pay off your gun, you can walk right out of the store with it.
"Cooling off period"...how stupid is that, really? Just another gimme brown-nose tactic for the libs showing them how much we are trying to play ball with them.
I wonder how many angry people have actually purchased a gun and used it in anger the same day, seriously? If you are really intent on shooting someone, do they really think three days (or 10, now) will make you change your mind? Not likely.

I would be willing to bet money I don't have, that not one single "crime of passion" has ever been prevented by a waiting period. If someone is hell bent on shooting someone, the last place they're going to go is a gun shop.

[Captainkirk]

I would be willing to bet money I don't have, that not one single "crime of passion" has ever been prevented by a waiting period. If someone is hell bent on shooting someone, the last place they're going to go is a gun shop.

Amen!

[ShotgunDave]

Thanks for the insight Scooby. I am learning much from your suggestions.

I have a Lee powder measure, but don't use it. When I load up .45 Colt ammo, I use a homemade dipper to charge the cases. I'll do the same for the 44-40. I'll figure out how much powder the case will hold, and construct a dipper just for that caliber.

I am really curious to see the volume of powder a 44-40 case will hold. When loading my .45's, I get about 32 grains in with enough room left to seat a bullet. It obviously compresses the powder, but I don't think I could get much more in the case and still leave enough room to seat the bullet.

I should have all my supplies here by Friday. So experimentation will begin in earnest.

[Captainkirk]

Thanks for the insight Scooby. I am learning much from your suggestions.

I have a Lee powder measure, but don't use it. When I load up .45 Colt ammo, I use a homemade dipper to charge the cases. I'll do the same for the 44-40. I'll figure out how much powder the case will hold, and construct a dipper just for that caliber.

I am really curious to see the volume of powder a 44-40 case will hold. When loading my .45's, I get about 32 grains in with enough room left to seat a bullet. It obviously compresses the powder, but I don't think I could get much more in the case and still leave enough room to seat the bullet.

I should have all my supplies here by Friday. So experimentation will begin in earnest.

For curiosity's sake, Dave...did you order a compression die with your supplies?
I'm hoping to start cranking out smokeless .44-40 rounds by the end of the week.

[ShotgunDave]

Very well then. You are already volume loading for your 45 Colt so you will be spot on with the 44 WCF. I will give you a call one if these evenings soon and pass on another little tip I use for figuring powder column levels to match the bullet being used. It would take too long ro type it here.

Thank you Scooby. I look forward to talking with you again!

[ShotgunDave]

Thanks for the insight Scooby. I am learning much from your suggestions.

I have a Lee powder measure, but don't use it. When I load up .45 Colt ammo, I use a homemade dipper to charge the cases. I'll do the same for the 44-40. I'll figure out how much powder the case will hold, and construct a dipper just for that caliber.

I am really curious to see the volume of powder a 44-40 case will hold. When loading my .45's, I get about 32 grains in with enough room left to seat a bullet. It obviously compresses the powder, but I don't think I could get much more in the case and still leave enough room to seat the bullet.

I should have all my supplies here by Friday. So experimentation will begin in earnest.

For curiosity's sake, Dave...did you order a compression die with your supplies?
I'm hoping to start cranking out smokeless .44-40 rounds by the end of the week.

I haven't ordered the compression die yet Capt. Thanks for reminding me.