Geronimo's Rifle

[Miguel Loco]

No they don't Hawg..... and if you look at the pics of Gen Crook and his guys.....doesn't look like many are wearing much of anything military provided, including the boots. Military issued wool clothing is not your best friend in the desert.

There are a few articles written about those boots. He may have traded his Trap Door for them. I doubt he had them before he surrendered. The Apache's traveled super light, covering as much as 75 miles a day on foot. So I'm sure there was no extra baggage. So my guess is that he got them at the Sutlers Store at Fort Bowie. Here's some info on the store which is visible in my pic to the right center.

https://www.loc.gov/resource/hhh.az0008.sheet?st=gallery

So he must have had valuables to trade.....

On another note....the pic of the site where what is commonly called the "Bascom Affair" took place, where Lt Bascom met Cochise in what was the start of the Apache war. It was amazing to stand there. There are cliffs all round the back (not in the picture) where the Apache's held the army down. Water was only a few hundred yards away..... but it would have been a deadly trip to the spring.

[Zulch]

Incredible Mick!! Man I must sa that I am envious of your hike. I would absolutely love to make a hike like that!! I can only imagine how you must have felt. Did you do this hike alone? If so, that would have been extra special. Fascinating and thought provoking post Mick. Thank you for sharing your personal pictures.

[Zulch]

I thought this was interesting regarding LT Davis' involvement in Apache domestic affairs:  Taken from:
https://www.americanheritage.com/geronimo

and The Apaches were angry because Davis, as the officer in charge of their camp, had jailed some of them for exercising two time-hopored customs: drinking tiswin (a strong beer made from corn) and beating wives. They had surrendered and come to live peacefully on the i-eservation, Chihuahua said, but they had made no agreement to alter their domestic: habits. What they drank, and how they disciplined their wives, was no business of the U.S. Army.

Davis began an explanation of why General George Crook, his commanding officer, had felt it necessary to prohibit these folkways, but he was shortly interrupted by Nana, the oldest of the Chiricahua leaders.

“Tell the Stout Chief [Davis],” Nana said harshly to the interpreter, “that he can’t advise me how to treat my women. He is only a boy. I killed men before he was born.” And with as much dignity as his bent and wrinkled body could command, Nana stalked out.

[Miguel Loco]

Old ways die hard. The Tiswin parties were a rowdy debacle. Generally generating into fights and killings among the Apache's. Crooks fear was that a gathering like that could lead to an overall attack on the military. As far as wife beating goes, that just didn't sit well with Crook. However both were part of time-honored customs for the Apache's and created much animosity.

I'm not sure you can get to this link.....but it tells the full story. https://truewestmagazine.com/was-geronimo-a-drunk/

However....the term "Tiswin Drunk" may not have always been Tiswin fueled. Corn wasn't that easy to come by. They used other desert plants like agave to distill more powerful spirits too.

A wonderful book to read on the Apache's and the war is titled "Apache Wars" by Paul Hutton. It covers most everything, is well written and a pleasure to read. It delves into the culture rather deeply. It's only $6.99 for the Kindle resion and $15.99 for the paperback. https://www.amazon.com/s?k=apache+wars&crid=1E5XF7RUW24W1&sprefix=apache+wars%2Caps%2C140&ref=nb_sb_noss_1

[Zulch]

Thank you Mick. I am going to check that book out. My grandmother was half Indian and so I have always been fascinated by that. I am not exactly sure but I believe her Indian connection of her life was connected to the Creek. I cannot believe that I never bothered to ask her when she was here. She died back in the late 80's. She was a good woman. I think I would enjoy this read that you referenced. Thank you.

[StrawHat]

I thought Geronimo carried a 50-70 Springfield Single Shot Rifle?

Kevin

[Hawg]

I thought Geronimo carried a 50-70 Springfield Single Shot Rifle?

Kevin

When he surrendered in 1877 he had an 1870 Springfield rifle in 50-70 with the stock cut down to carbine length. When he surrendered in 1886 he had an 1876 Winchester 45-70. 

[StrawHat]

I thought Geronimo carried a 50-70 Springfield Single Shot Rifle?

Kevin

When he surrendered in 1877 he had an 1870 Springfield rifle in 50-70 with the stock cut down to carbine length. When he surrendered in 1886 he had an 1876 Winchester 45-70.

Guessing that is a typo, the 1876 was chambered in 45-75.  The 1886 was available in 45-70.

Kevin

[StrawHat]

I thought Geronimo carried a 50-70 Springfield Single Shot Rifle?

Kevin

When he surrendered in 1877 he had an 1870 Springfield rifle in 50-70 with the stock cut down to carbine length. When he surrendered in 1886 he had an 1876 Winchester 45-70.

Tahk you.  I thought he had a proper Springfield.

They lever gun.  Is that a typo?  1876 = 45-75,  1886 = 45-70.

Kevin

[Hawg]

Did some more searching and getting conflicting stories. The pic of him with a Springfield with the full stock was supposedly taken in 1886 before the surrender. The 1876 came in 40-60, 45-60, 45-75 and 50-90 express. Another site has him carrying a Winchester and a revolver at the surrender in 86. https://www.historynet.com/general-nelson-miles-and-the-expedition-to-capture-geronimo/  Aguirre and six men, along with Lawton and his officers, arrived at the designated location first. No one dismounted. Suddenly, Geronimo walked in from the bush. He carried a Winchester; a revolver dangled on his left hip. An unarmed Gatewood followed him, then Wratten, Naiche and four others. The Indians held cocked rifles. They crossed half the distance to the Mexicans and halted.

[Miguel Loco]

Had it not been for Gatewood, Geronimo would have been murdered on the spot. The entire story is fascinating.

[Marshal Will]

Good article, Hawg. That was quite an account of the events that took place. Thanks for the link.

[Zulch]

Thanks Hawg!😁 great article👍

[Miguel Loco]

Given Geronimo's usual routine of surrendering .... 4 or 5 times..... it's my opinion that he would have never surrendered his favorite weapons. Those were kept in a safe place should the need arise again.

I could be wrong, the last time had them pretty much with their backs against the proverbial wall. However even with the Mexican Army as well as the largest contingent of the US Army both on his heels..... he didn't turn himself in until he felt like it.

[Sooty Barrels]

Very interesting didn't know any info about Geronimo
Thanks