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Author Topic: An original 3d model  (Read 1567 times)

Offline Racing

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An original 3d model
« on: July 22, 2022, 03:37:18 PM »
Yeah well, spoiler alert then i guess boys.
Or as some´d say.. IT`S GOOD TO BE BACK!  (7+"

Anywhoo..



As many of you are well aware we boys are all about the originals when staying permit exempt, and this then being no exception.
Knowing a bit on the US scene i´d say that in general we´re "sooner" to go make the old ´uns shoot. I guess due that?
Saying that..
This dude looks me up with an original 3d model that want me to do "the Racing thang" to have the thing go shoot again - and who am i to question that?
Yeah yeah.. i know. Don´t  blow the piece up, they´re not made anymore. I hear ya, then again.. not my first run down the rabbit hole is it?  :-* (7+"
So yeah. Hefty end shake, timing outta whack and what not.



History. History is important, and we´re all buffs right? Well. This one was actually US made and then shipped for "the old country" and in being that it had to get approved. Thus each and every chamber was pressure tested by the British aaaand.. stamped accordingly.
But yeah. End shake along the lines of shy of 1mm. A lot in short, and to be expected with most old Colts in all honesty...



Yep. For you replica guys to check, cause that there is what an original tells on a scale. Hefty MF´s ain´t they...



Original or not, old they are at least. Word of caution here, that applies to the "old ´uns". Don´t even give THOUGHT to removing stuck cones sans heat. I recap, do NOT.
Use the torch with an excess of acetylene (a SLIGHTLY "coal-ed" tip) and keep what´ll get orange and yellow the tip of the cones only. ALWAYS set the cylinder on the vise in longitude. NEVER across..these are cast items.. be wary.. Need be shod the vise with pieces of soft aluminium if it makes your heart pound less...
That said, by now.. hundreds and hundreds of nipples taken out of cylinders, and using appropriate heat it has NEVER failed. Force is NOT the answer, heat is.



Nope. An original is NOT 225-32 or similar. It is 1/4".. Yeah, ask me how i know.. :happy-098:
No matter, threads of course needed to be chased. (This a cylinder for a Whitney Navy, just trying to get my point across  (7+")



Uhu. Beefy indeed, but again.. them British proof marks. Like all over.



YES! We friggin KNOW it is!



The thing here is that.. in contrast to the later Navy n Army and what not these have rather heavy duty rifling. Due that it is rare to run into one where it´s "gone" due pitting and what not.
Yup. Needed a fresh crown though as the order was not only to get it to shoot but "get it to shoot to par all it can".
Yes Sir.
Read n understood!



Uhu. You´re correct, there was radii play beyond what is acceptable too. Handled by turning bushings out of steel that i made "disappear" with the TIG welder.



As you can gather this specific Dragoon was in rather ok nick/condition. Needed a tad of work to "re-become" all it could be but hey.. that´s why it´s on my workbench right!



Yeah. So. The barrel is stated to be out of "silver steel". Whatever, what´s imperative to me is that it´s weldable, and it is. As you weld something as rare as this up.. you´d better make googly moogly sure you´re ontop of things.
Then again.. not my first trip around the house right so, all good.
As you´ve added material, which of most will be cut off again, you basically reshape that cone on the lathe - going old school for real. Sure. You cut the gas sealing surface using modern day cutters on the lathe but the rest of it to be honest is in files and your own hands.



As i had handled the radii part of it resetting end shake to spec was a rather straight affair. Notion was for stock.. and i about trumphed that at 6/100mm



Ditto for the trigger/sear and the hammer. Worn.. welded that up using a rather "specific" TIG rod made for its wear properties and.. done deal.
Of course what to keep in mind here is that the Colts have their rear sights on the hammer why "set point" will affect how it prints on target.



Replacement nipples are NOT off the shelf items! Let me assure you!. It being approx 1/4"UNF though i made some intended for rifle use work. Again.. lathe time, and that kind of made short notice.



So. Of course a job like this is extremely hard to sum up in a few notes on a forum. Net result though was a Dragoon that was on par with new, i´d even wager better.
Thing locks up like a Swiss watch.. and hammers away.



Yep. Done deal.
« Last Edit: July 22, 2022, 03:47:31 PM by Racing »

Offline DoubleDeuce1

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Re: An original 3d model
« Reply #1 on: July 22, 2022, 05:38:39 PM »
 :cowboypistol: :usa-flag-89:

Offline Captainkirk

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Re: An original 3d model
« Reply #2 on: July 22, 2022, 06:59:07 PM »
If I didn't say it plain enough before...
SO GOOD TO HAVE YOU BACK HERE!
We miss these adventures of you keeping the originals plugging away!
Thanks for posting!
"You gonna pull those pistols, or whistle Dixie?"

Offline Hawg

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Re: An original 3d model
« Reply #3 on: July 22, 2022, 09:13:24 PM »
If I didn't say it plain enough before...
SO GOOD TO HAVE YOU BACK HERE!
We miss these adventures of you keeping the originals plugging away!
Thanks for posting!

Ditto!!!
Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy and tasteth good with ketchup.

Offline Necessaryevil

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Re: An original 3d model
« Reply #4 on: July 23, 2022, 05:05:28 AM »
Good to see you back.

When I acquired my 1851 Navy I didn't have access to a welding point. I left the cylinder soaking in 3 in 1 penetrating oil for what I think was SIX months.

I put the cylinder in a vice longitude and all six unscrewed like they were put in there the day before. Replaced them with Track of the Wolf stainless ones.

But hey, I was in no hurry.

Offline 45 Dragoon

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Re: An original 3d model
« Reply #5 on: July 23, 2022, 05:29:51 AM »
Yep, nice to see ya!!
The Cylinder threw me  at first!!!  I couldn't believe the ratchet teeth were like that !! Lol!!  Are the action parts still "1st Gen." or have they been changed or maybe altered modern parts? How about a picture of the machining of the frame for the action parts ?  I had a '60 Army in the shop (1863 build) and was very surprised at how rough it was inside!! The hand slot looked to be done with 3 passes with a drill bit and a swipe with a file! 

Mike

Offline Sooty Barrels

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Re: An original 3d model
« Reply #6 on: July 23, 2022, 05:34:03 AM »
Racing thanks again for posting

I use Kroil, after a good soaking things break free

Offline ShotgunDave

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Re: An original 3d model
« Reply #7 on: July 23, 2022, 01:54:53 PM »
Let me add to the welcome back committee. It surely is good to have you posting again! )l_



I love that you get the originals back in working order and then actually use them. Keep it up!
"Never trust an actor with a gun."
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Offline Racing

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Re: An original 3d model
« Reply #8 on: August 01, 2022, 04:32:51 PM »
Yep, nice to see ya!!
The Cylinder threw me  at first!!!  I couldn't believe the ratchet teeth were like that !! Lol!!  Are the action parts still "1st Gen." or have they been changed or maybe altered modern parts? How about a picture of the machining of the frame for the action parts ?  I had a '60 Army in the shop (1863 build) and was very surprised at how rough it was inside!! The hand slot looked to be done with 3 passes with a drill bit and a swipe with a file! 

Mike

Oh! Didn´t catch this Mike! Here goes though...
Yes. they´re rather coarse inside, agreed on that, but then again.. progress was made in like leaps at the time why a given production method sure wasn´t set in stone by any measure.

As for the 1st.. dunno, but i´ve had a 2nd on the bench too and they are about dead ringers within.

Sry to say (welp..  :-X) gun is since long back with its owner. OTOH i´ve gotten to know the owner rather well (he lives like 1000km north of me) why i could sure ask him to snap pics of whatever it is you feel you need brother!
Pick your poison and let me know and we´ll take it from there..

But yeah. One thing that struck at least me getting to work on Dragoons at the start was their VERY VERY coarse rifling. This DOES look like it was done with a coarse rasp approx. Just look at the pic of the muzzle up there to get an idea, and then compare that to the 1860 you had in the door.
Like night and day, and when an original 1860 in turn is compared to what´s being delivered today.. Ditto for rifling DEPTH which is insanely so on an original Dragoon.

Why that is has been debated back n forth until pigs fly to be honest, and it´s by far anything Colt specific. It´s just the way things were done in the 1840´s and 1850´s. Then the industrial revolution struck and..

Tip/word of advice. There´s actually a No of vids up on YT of original rifling machinery running. A number of gents have been at it, and have had these old pieces of kit running again. Let´s put it this way, a modern day rifling button is a rather far cry off here..

I for one get REAL nerdy when i start to give thought what these men were actually capable of seeing the cards they were dealt. What we´re able to today... vs in the 1850´s, not even on the same map.

That said plz be aware that an old original 1860 or 1858 can very well be a "50 points" gun when shot off hand/one handed at 25 meters/yards. Ie; a series of a 5 shot string can hand you all 50 points there to be had.
Then of course we can go back n forth about progressive rifling and what not that was all the rage at one point. Actually had me a small "Wesson rifle" originating from Maine that sported that. Intended for "sugar loaf" pills.
Handed more modern dittos though.. Thing is, gun was a carbine and still sported a set trigger. Some schmuck had violated the piece installing modern glass at some point.. (original sights were long gone)



In many a ways a gun even more crude than that 1860... and it still was an accurate little rifle out to even semi long ranges. Approx 40caliber. Progressive rifling, ending in like 1;30 or so.