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Author Topic: Paper cartridge concerns?  (Read 969 times)

Offline Navy Six

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Paper cartridge concerns?
« on: May 02, 2023, 02:06:13 PM »
Several years ago I did extensive testing using paper cartridges in both .36 and .44 pistols. I wasn't testing accuracy but rather conditions at a Cowboy Match where time constraints wouldn't allow complete cylinder inspection for paper residue after firing. The test was conducted over four days and I fired a pair of similar guns 6 cylinders each as fast as I could load the next round of paper cartridges. In other words, I loaded the next batch right on top of whatever paper residue remained from previous firing.
Day 1--pair of Uberti .36 51 Navies, total 72 rounds
Day 2--pair of Uberti .44 60 Armies, total 72 rounds
Day 3--pair of Euroarms .44 Rogers & Spencers, total 72 rounds
Day 4--pair of Uberti .36 61 Navies, total 72 rounds
That was a total of 288 rounds with no hang fires or mis-fires. Each round went off normally. That convinced me that under normal conditions the paper residue poses minimal problems. I do however make my paper cartridges from one thickness hair curling paper, using just enough paper to do the job.

The above was a response I submitted on another site where the question arose about the danger of continuing to load paper cartridges without completely removing residue in each chamber. I did this test to determine if it was feasible to keep loading paper cartridges at a Cowboy Match where stopping to completely clean each chamber may not be practical. Since this test I have used my paper cartridges at a several Cowboy Matches with no issues. I post this here as it may be of interest to others who have questions about the safety of doing so. Admittedly, my test may prove nothing, but I hope not!
« Last Edit: May 03, 2023, 05:05:35 AM by Navy Six »
Only Blackpowder is interesting.
"I'm the richest man in the world. I have a good wife, a good dog and a good sixgun". Charles A "Skeeter" Skelton

Offline Captainkirk

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Re: Paper cartridge concerns?
« Reply #1 on: May 02, 2023, 03:40:07 PM »
I find your results very interesting. I've heard some of the old wives' tales about paper carts doing the same thing. There could be a myriad of reasons, from type of paper used (cigarette vs hair curling), paper thickness, type of adhesive, powder brand and granulation...you name it. But yours is the first I've seen where anyone has documented the results, and I thank you for the info! Personally, I think it's much ado about nothing, and won't interfere with reliability any more than would say, lead ring shavings.
Thanks for sharing!
"You gonna pull those pistols, or whistle Dixie?"

Offline G Dog

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Re: Paper cartridge concerns?
« Reply #2 on: May 02, 2023, 04:18:30 PM »
Excellent tests, Six.  Informative results.  I shoot my C&B’s about twice a week and use paper carts about 40% to 60% poured powder.  I use hemp papers rolled on a dowel, no nitrating and get results very similar to yours.

Good post!
"Tolerance is the last virtue of a dying society."
                                                   --   Aristotle

Offline Miguel Loco

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Re: Paper cartridge concerns?
« Reply #3 on: May 02, 2023, 09:03:22 PM »
Great stuff Navy. I've used many paper cartridges as well.....as a mater of fact, that's all I use any more. Curling papers like you on all of them and never had a single issue, though I do check the chambers before every reload. I do find small small pieces of paper occasionally. But given the time between firing and the next reload.....which is minutes, not seconds after the last round is fired....I'm sure there wouldn't be any "hot spots" as the remaining paper would have combusted.

Like Capt said....."Old Wives Tale".....just use the right stuff and it works splendidly
"a dios rogando y con el mazo dando...y un buen cigarro"
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Offline Zulch

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Re: Paper cartridge concerns?
« Reply #4 on: May 03, 2023, 05:12:50 AM »
Great write-up Navy Six. I've never made paper cartridges so your information is extrememly helpful to those like myself who have never made these. It sounds as if and residual paper left in the chambers could be a serious problem? Is that because of the possibility of an ember still smoldering in the chamber?

Online Hawg

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Re: Paper cartridge concerns?
« Reply #5 on: May 03, 2023, 06:35:54 AM »
Good info but where do you shoot CAS that you can reload a cap and ball on the clock?
Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy and tasteth good with ketchup.

Offline Navy Six

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Re: Paper cartridge concerns?
« Reply #6 on: May 03, 2023, 12:39:58 PM »
Hawg, I haven't loaded on the clock(trying to convince my club, the Quinton Mavericks, to do so!), but the last couple years during Covid/ammo shortage our numbers were smaller at a Match. When only 10 people are on a posse things move pretty quickly and I want to do my share of posse duties and paper cartridges allow much quicker loading.
  Zulch, there are usually two concerns about paper residue. One is the remaining paper might block ignition from the cap. You would have to fire an awful lot of paper, and I've never had that happen. The bigger perceived issue is paper continuing to smolder which could ignite the next loaded round. From everything I've gathered, this may be a concern in a rifle barrel where less oxygen is at the bottom of the barrel allowing a slow smolder, just like a campfire you thought was out until you turned over the ashes. In a short pistol chamber there isn't much risk of that happening. I cannot verify any of this as I have no scientific background, hence the reason for my test. All I can say is that over almost 10 years of making paper cartridges in percussion pistols, I have never run across smoldering paper residue.

Only Blackpowder is interesting.
"I'm the richest man in the world. I have a good wife, a good dog and a good sixgun". Charles A "Skeeter" Skelton

Online Hawg

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Re: Paper cartridge concerns?
« Reply #7 on: May 03, 2023, 12:50:52 PM »
Methinks if you turn the cylinder so the last chamber fired is past the loading window there would be no smoldering embers to worry about anyway.
Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy and tasteth good with ketchup.