Navy Arms G.U. 1851 Colt Navy, from the first run?

[valforgettaboutit]

Hey all, thought I'd post about the Navy Arms 1851 Navy I picked up recently. Was looking to just add a nice percussion shooter to get into black powder after being introduced to it. Upon inspection closer inspection/research I think I picked up a much nicer gem that I originally thought. It's a G.U. with no proofs or any identifying marks besides a Navy Arms on the frame and barrel, a serial # in the 1700's and a tiny "9" stamped on the barrel assembly and inside of the frame. Outside of placing it in the '59-'61 range I don't know too much about the value of this guy, so I'm still in the "do I keep it nice or shoot it" area. It definitely has had some use, a little corrosion in the rear of the cylinder and a tiny ding on the barrel, plus I bought it off a re-enactor so I'm pretty sure he fired it at least a few times. Beautiful piece though, and functions smooth, Val Jr definitely made the right choice getting Gregorelli and Uberti to make these. If I can find the photo outside of a copyrighted database, while doing research on this guy I also found an old NY Times article on Val first bringing these guys over from Italy, has a great photo of him and a table full of Colts. Pictures of my Navy are below:

[ssb73q]

Hi val, nice looking revolver! I look forward to your shooting report. What do you intend to use for the propellant? I like Black Mz for the good ignition, low corrosion, and easy clean up. Make sure you use either a lubed wad or overball grease to prevent chainfires.

Regards,
Richard

[valforgettaboutit]

Hi val, nice looking revolver! I look forward to your shooting report. What do you intend to use for the propellant? I like Black Mz for the good ignition, low corrosion, and easy clean up. Make sure you use either a lubed wad or overball grease to prevent chainfires.

Regards,
Richard

Thanks for the advice Richard, definitely going with some wonder wads. I'm waiting to hit the range for when I can drag out my friend that's been shooting BP for several years to learn the ropes a bit more, so as for propellant I know he's shooting FFF and pyrodex. Probably stick with the FFF, not sure how this pistol will handle pyrodex. Living in a condo currently so I'm not really comfortable storing up any BP here so we'll see. Either way I'll give an update for any range action.

[Fingers McGee]

Great find Val.  The G&Us are collectable, and there have been a bunch of them show up on GB in the past couple years.   I've got a pair of Navy Arms G&U Griswold & Gunnisons that are unfired, uncleaned, and in 100% new condition with original grease in areas.  They are SN 10XX and 17XX.  The 17XX one has a 1960 date code and proof marks on the frame.  The 10XX one has no markings except the serial number on the frame.

Would love to see the NY Times article if you can provide a link. 

[ssb73q]

Hi val, Pryodex is the lowest cost propellant. I hate the stuff. It is very variable in velocity and ignition is problematic. It is an outdated propellant. The Pryodex residual is very corrosive and smoke makes me choke. But then, I'm from New York and I choke easily. 

Black powder is no more dangerous than Pryodex. Christening a BP revolver with real black powder shows a respect for the past and will give you the smoke and smell of the past. All new BP revolvers deserve initial use with real black powder.

Regards,
Richard 

[valforgettaboutit]

Fingers - Thanks! The link to the photo is https://goo.gl/images/NY59Im . The article itself is hidden behind a paywall on the NY Times. Once I remember what database I was using to read it I'll let you know. One of the hazards of being a librarian, having the database at work makes to too lazy to buy it for home use. The headline  "' Civil War' Guns for U.S. Buffs Being Made by Yankee in Italy " is probably the best part.

Richard - Oh I agree with trying to keep it historically accurate. Probably just get what I need en route to the range, give the rest to my buddy so I don't have to worry about getting BP on the carpet at home.

[sourdough]

Hi Val,

I see that most other posters are urging you to shoot it.

If it was my pistol I would keep it as a collector. Val and Navy Arms have not been around for decades and that GU is truly a collectors item, and I truly believe that it would be worth more if no more firings happened with that pistol. It appears to be a Third Model 1851 Navy except it has a plain cylinder, which is not historically correct but may be a collectible item insofar as repros.

The collector's market for pistols of this genre may not appear soon, but it will, and maybe after we are dead and gone.

If you want to shoot a repro 1851 Navy .36, buy a Pietta from Cabela's, and keep the GU as a safe queen, please, or sell it to me.

Jim

[LonesomePigeon]

Congrats on the GU! That's a very nice find. I like the GU's because the balance, feel and dimensions are not quite like any other '51 replica I know of. The barrel has a smaller and more tapered outer dimension that IMHO makes them handle better. I have 3 of them but as much as I like them I must admit they all need work to run well. Mainly the problems are with cap fitment, cap sucking and hammer blow back. There are other deficencies as well, such as rough forcing cones and possibly chambers of sightly different sizes. I am going to trade one of my GU's to have the other 2 slicked up.

I believe these GU's were all hand fitted so yours may or may not have similar issues. If there are any issues I would not get discouraged. They are very unique guns and well worth the time and expense of slicking them up. They are also very collectible.

[valforgettaboutit]

Hi Val,

I see that most other posters are urging you to shoot it.

If it was my pistol I would keep it as a collector. Val and Navy Arms have not been around for decades and that GU is truly a collectors item, and I truly believe that it would be worth more if no more firings happened with that pistol. It appears to be a Third Model 1851 Navy except it has a plain cylinder, which is not historically correct but may be a collectible item insofar as repros.

The collector's market for pistols of this genre may not appear soon, but it will, and maybe after we are dead and gone.

If you want to shoot a repro 1851 Navy .36, buy a Pietta from Cabela's, and keep the GU as a safe queen, please, or sell it to me.

Jim

Hey Jim,

The jury is still out on whether or not I'll be taking this guy to the range. Still haven't made my mind up yet on it, plus I'm still gauging the value vs cost vs fun ratio. If I end up going to the range I'll share some feedback, but I'm still figuring things out with this guy.

Congrats on the GU! That's a very nice find. I like the GU's because the balance, feel and dimensions are not quite like any other '51 replica I know of. The barrel has a smaller and more tapered outer dimension that IMHO makes them handle better. I have 3 of them but as much as I like them I must admit they all need work to run well. Mainly the problems are with cap fitment, cap sucking and hammer blow back. There are other deficencies as well, such as rough forcing cones and possibly chambers of sightly different sizes. I am going to trade one of my GU's to have the other 2 slicked up.

I believe these GU's were all hand fitted so yours may or may not have similar issues. If there are any issues I would not get discouraged. They are very unique guns and well worth the time and expense of slicking them up. They are also very collectible.

Thanks LP! I appreciate the advice! If this GU ends up going to the range I'll be sure to report back on how it went.

[Captainkirk]

Unless that is your only BP gun, I concur with the guys who suggest 'parking it' and shooting a garden variety Pietta instead. The GU guns are pretty rare and the value seems to climb each time I see one listed. As you know, Uberti parts are NOT 'drop-in' fit and for that reason alone I would leave it alone and shoot something else.
Just my .02.

[sourdough]

Hi, guys and gals! For all of you collectors:

Found another G&U 1851 Navy .36 for your viewing and bidding pleasure. Seller says it is serial number 45 and it has very nice walnut wood to boot! No reserve, 1 bid, new minimum bid must be $254 as I post, 6D until end of auction.

http://www.gunbroker.com/item/639333995

Good luck, folks!

Jim

[Hawg]

I always seem to be at odds with the majority, guess I'm just contrary but I have a gun that Dr Davis didn't know anything about until I sent him pictures and he even tried to buy it for his museum but it's a good shooter so I kept it. I care nothing about collector value and I delight in shooting rare guns and making collectors cringe.

[sourdough]

I always seem to be at odds with the majority, guess I'm just contrary but I have a gun that Dr Davis didn't know anything about until I sent him pictures and he even tried to buy it for his museum but it's a good shooter so I kept it. I care nothing about collector value and I delight in shooting rare guns and making collectors cringe.

Aw, Hawg, there are lots of repros out there to shoot and possibly get well tuned by folks like Goon and possibly others. I know you are a shooter first and a collector last.

I am just the opposite, as you probably know. I don't have the funds but there may be others that would trade your guns for new Piettas or Ubertis.

As always,

Jim

[valforgettaboutit]

Thanks for the heads up Jim, I've been curious to see what the market value of these GU's are. Jury is still out on mine, content having it stored away for now but definitely keeping an open mind about the possibilities of flipping it/shooting it. The in this auction is a very nice condition, always interesting to see these with really low #'s.

[LonesomePigeon]

If I bought a new in box, unfired GU I would not fire it. All 3 of mine have obviously been fired and I bought them to shoot so I have no qualms about shooting them. To me they offer a balance and feel that I can't get from other repros. It depends how well they function when I get them back from the gunsmith but if I like them enough I would even consider getting them refinished, with a high polish blue and real bone charcoal case colors.