Cap Sucking Colts

[r5868]

Hawg, it was brand new when I got it and it has never been dry fired by me.

[ssb73q]

Hi r5868, yes, I also have some recent purchased Uberti's that look like your hammer face. Maybe that's the Uberti way of setting hammer face to nipple distance in manufacture? Then harden the hammer after that step?

Regards,
Richard

[Hawg]

I don't think the hammers are hardened. I've seen too many that have nipple imprints to be so.

[ssb73q]

Hi Hawg, after trying to drill and file a few of them, I am convinced the hammers are case hardened. The hardening however my be thin enough that it allows nipple deformation of the hammer face.

In any event, I have new Uberti revolvers with the same hammer face indentation as shown in the photo.

Regards,
Richard 

[Hawg]

Hi Hawg, after trying to drill and file a few of them, I am convinced the hammers are case hardened. The hardening however my be thin enough that it allows nipple deformation of the hammer face.

In any event, I have new Uberti revolvers with the same hammer face indentation as shown in the photo.

Regards,
Richard

Case hardened wouldn't do that. Case hardening is a surface hardening only, it goes maybe .003 deep. Case hardening can't be filed period. I only have one Uberti and the hammer face on it is flat as can be. I find it hard to believe they left the factory like that but I'll take your word for it. if I got one like that I'd send it back.

[ssb73q]

Hi, this last weekend my son-in-law brought out his Pietta 1851 revolver that I gave him for Christmas. I had a number of cylinders already preloaded for him to use. It didn't take but the 2nd or 3rd shot for him to experience cap sucking. Caps stuck to the hammer, and caps falling in between the hammer and frame were experienced. A little training on the wrist twist, or overhead hammer operation minimized the cap sucking. After shooting was completed, I asked him how he like his 1851. He said shooting the 1851 was fun, but not 100% reliable as his 1858 Remington. Then I asked him which is the most attractive revolver, the 1851 or 1858. The 1851 was his preferred best looking and fun to shoot revolver.

I offered to replace his 1851 hammer with a replacement hammer where the hammer slot is filled in. His decision was to keep the hammer slot so that the Colt safety feature remained intact. With his current skill level, I couldn't disagree.

Regards,
Richard

Hi, yesterday my son-in-law came out to visit and brought along his Pietta 1851 to shoot. I didn't have any preloaded cylinders available for him and thought it was time that he learned to field load his 1851. As expected, it went slow at first, but as he gained skill the loading became very easy for him. He fired a couple of dozen cylinders. What surprised me is that there wasn't a single sucked cap, all the cap parts fell harmlessly away from screwing up the action. Based on what we have seen before, I would have expected a number of cap jams. I examined the hammer face slot and it is typical of new Pietta Colts, sharp.

I am truly at a loss of understanding on how on one day there is a large amount of cap sucking and then on another day none at all. The mystery deepens.

Regards,
Richard

Hi, yesterday my son-in-law again came out to shoot his Pietta 1851 revolver. I preloaded up six extra cylinders for him and he loaded up a dozen more on his 1851. While the last time he didn't have any cap sucking, yesterday there were five times when the cap fell between the hammer and frame preventing firing a cap. Go figure, one day he has no cap sucking and on another day his 1851 cap sucks. He is rethinking my offer to install a replacement hammer that I already filled in the hammer slot with silver solder. Especially since I offered advice on only loading five and keeping the hammer on an empty chamber. I never expect a new BP shooter to take in all BP prudent shooting technique in a couple of outings.

One thing I did enjoy seeing was the ease of him taking down his 1851 for cleaning. He could have done it blindfolded.

A proud dad,
Richard

[Captainkirk]

Hi, this last weekend my son-in-law brought out his Pietta 1851 revolver that I gave him for Christmas. I had a number of cylinders already preloaded for him to use. It didn't take but the 2nd or 3rd shot for him to experience cap sucking. Caps stuck to the hammer, and caps falling in between the hammer and frame were experienced. A little training on the wrist twist, or overhead hammer operation minimized the cap sucking. After shooting was completed, I asked him how he like his 1851. He said shooting the 1851 was fun, but not 100% reliable as his 1858 Remington. Then I asked him which is the most attractive revolver, the 1851 or 1858. The 1851 was his preferred best looking and fun to shoot revolver.

I offered to replace his 1851 hammer with a replacement hammer where the hammer slot is filled in. His decision was to keep the hammer slot so that the Colt safety feature remained intact. With his current skill level, I couldn't disagree.

Regards,
Richard

Hi, yesterday my son-in-law came out to visit and brought along his Pietta 1851 to shoot. I didn't have any preloaded cylinders available for him and thought it was time that he learned to field load his 1851. As expected, it went slow at first, but as he gained skill the loading became very easy for him. He fired a couple of dozen cylinders. What surprised me is that there wasn't a single sucked cap, all the cap parts fell harmlessly away from screwing up the action. Based on what we have seen before, I would have expected a number of cap jams. I examined the hammer face slot and it is typical of new Pietta Colts, sharp.

I am truly at a loss of understanding on how on one day there is a large amount of cap sucking and then on another day none at all. The mystery deepens.

Regards,
Richard

Hi, yesterday my son-in-law again came out to shoot his Pietta 1851 revolver. I preloaded up six extra cylinders for him and he loaded up a dozen more on his 1851. While the last time he didn't have any cap sucking, yesterday there were five times when the cap fell between the hammer and frame preventing firing a cap. Go figure, one day he has no cap sucking and on another day his 1851 cap sucks. He is rethinking my offer to install a replacement hammer that I already filled in the hammer slot with silver solder. Especially since I offered advice on only loading five and keeping the hammer on an empty chamber. I never expect a new BP shooter to take in all BP prudent shooting technique in a couple of outings.

One thing I did enjoy seeing was the ease of him taking down his 1851 for cleaning. He could have done it blindfolded.

A proud dad,
Richard

Richard, as much as you shoot (and as much as your Colts are cap-eaters!) I really think you should try out a cap rake. As talented and handy as you are, it should be a piece of cake for you. I will post some close-ups later on of the two Goon has installed on my guns...

[ssb73q]

Hi Kirk, with the Colt style revolvers that have cap sucking, I rather choose to use the filled in hammer gap method. Cap sucking is inversely proportional to the size of the Colt revolver. The main reason I would never use a cap rake is that Colt didn't use it and I use conversion cylinders and concerned that the hammer slot may need to be widened to clear the pin and there would be less hammer metal spreading the load on the conversion cylinder firing pin. Returning a filled in hammer slot to a stock hammer is easy where no modification to the frame was ever made. You may consider my logic irrational, but it serves me well.

Regards,
Richard

[Hawg]

That's the way I am, if Colt didn't use it I don't want it.

[mike116]

That's the way I am, if Colt didn't use it I don't want it.

Colt didn't use Pyrodex.

[Hawg]

That's the way I am, if Colt didn't use it I don't want it.

Colt didn't use Pyrodex.

True but sometimes it's all I can get and it's closer to real black than the other subs. I also use Swiss.

[ssb73q]

Hi Kirk, truth be told, I don't have any issue with people modifying their firearms anyway they choose. Cap rake is a proven solution to minimize cap sucking. If I needed a C&B for personal protection, I would have a complete tuneup job done by Goon that included the cap rake on that carry gun. However, since most of my BP shooting is simply for recreation all the Pietta's right out of the box get the job done. The Uberti Colts however do require some work to be at a performance level of the Pietta's. Some of the Colts like the smaller framed revolvers are terrible cap suckers. There are a few workarounds to minimize cap sucking, cap rake, filled in hammer slot, and twist wrist on cocking helpful. There is something inherent in the Colt design using modern manufacture caps that allows for cap sucking. There are other BP revolver designs like the Remington where getting a cap jam is a rarity. I have fired thousands and thousands of rounds using my Remington and Uberti 1858s and never had a cap jam.

A love affair sometimes comes with warts. Cap sucking with the small Colts is just part of the hobby.

As I posted before, I will never do a BP revolver mod that can't be 100% returned to stock. Last weekend I installed a replacement hammer silver solder filled in the hammer slot in my son-in-law's 1851. The reason I'm not concerned about losing the Colt safety pin feature is that I never, never, never ever use a safety on any gun when shooting at my range. There are only three safety rules necessary; Always keep the muzzle pointed in a safe direction, Always keep the gun unloaded until ready to use it, and Always keep your finger off the trigger until ready to shoot. Of course for carry and hunting, safeties make for good practice.

Regards,
Richard

[Captainkirk]

Richard, I have no issues with your line of thinking, but consider the following;
a) the cap rake as installed by The Goon is very thin; almost indistinguishable and fits in the slot already in the hammer (see pic below)
b) it is thin enough that were you to want to sell the gun or return it to normal, all that would be needed is to nip it off and file the nub down flush and it would be gone
c) Colts DO eat caps...it's a fact. And I've had to cease shooting with a particular revolver more than once (until I could get it home for an in-depth teardown and cleaning).  I can honestly say that never happened with any of my Remmies or my R&S (yet) with the many thousands of rounds I've fired. When I go to the range I bring more than one BP gun so it's not an issue, but if I was a 'one gun Charlie' (like Johnnie was) I could see where a cap frag could spoil your day and make you curse Sam Colt. I realize the cap rake isn't for everyone, to tell you the truth I wasn't sure how I was gonna like it until I actually saw it. But I'm good with it now.

[Hawg]

I can honestly say I've never had one fall in the works bad enough to totally lock it up and require  tear down to clear it. I do usually raise the muzzle some and tilt it to the right when cocking tho. I get the occasional cap stuck in the slot but that doesn't happen often. I don't get out and about much anymore to need to actually carry one holstered but when I do I use the pins. If I ever do get one that locks it up I'll just go over to the carport and get a screwdriver out of the toolbox.

[Captainkirk]

I can honestly say I've never had one fall in the works bad enough to totally lock it up and require  tear down to clear it. I do usually raise the muzzle some and tilt it to the right when cocking tho. I get the occasional cap stuck in the slot but that doesn't happen often. I don't get out and about much anymore to need to actually carry one holstered but when I do I use the pins. If I ever do get one that locks it up I'll just go over to the carport and get a screwdriver out of the toolbox.

My issue is that while our BP range does have nice big sturdy tables, they are out in the middle of God's Country with pine needles underneath...if a gust of wind sends your bits a-rollin'...they are gone forever. So I don't like to do any teardowns in the field. If a cap-eater locks up on me I grab another and retire it for the day.