Are the "real" Colts that much better?

[45 Dragoon]

Well,
 After working on all of them, the Uberti's of today are actually quite a bit nicer in the parts Dept.  Sam Colt would of had a fit to have the parts in an Uberti today!! All the the Colts (not including the first Gens) and sig series and copies of, have short arbors and crappy parts save for current Uberti's (parts) and Pietta's (arbors).
  The 2nd gens were made in the '70s/80s and the parts are just like  (cause they are) Uberti parts of that era. I cringe a little every time one comes here, not knowing what I'll find inside!
  Pietta at least fixed the arbor situation but they still have a long way to go with action parts, Uberti's on the other hand have the best parts .  .  .  . probably ever offered in a cap gun!

 The Colts were excellent for the time of reintroduction, look what they could be compared to. They were the best as far as fit/finish but just the same inside as every other Uberti of the time. Naturally, time would/should allow for refinement and for the most part, that is what has happened. So, it's not quite fair to say Colts are better no matter what  .  .  .  .  there is just no basis to say so.  The collector looks at them through a collectors eye and  I totally understand that. That's their baby!!
 In reality though, todays offerings are just much better appointed and heck, almost 40/yrs latter, what would you really expect?
  Collectors should collect them .  .  .  . after all, they are historic! They're known and numbered. Thanks to folks like Fingers, there will be amazing collections to speak for what they are and we're.

That being said, no matter what make or model, they can all be made to run like an Outlaw Mule!!! And that is something that has always been (even with the 1st gens). Factory guns can't hold a candle to correctly  tuned/fitted  version .  .  .  always has been, always will be .   .   .   . 

Mike
www.goonsgunworks.com
Follow me on Instagram @ goonsgunworks

[Krylandalian]

Y e s .

Got the Baby Dragoon.  The finish and markings anyway.  They re  so much better in appearance and so on.  Comparing the Model 48 Pocket to the Model 49 (48 2nd Gen, 49 3rd Gen)  The 48 is so much better finished than the 49. ,  which is much better than any replica.

The actions are hit and miss though.  Of all of mine, two of them are flawless in fit and action- 2nd Gen Second Dragoon and 3rd Gen WH Dragoon.

[Len]

Don't know if this is the right thread, but here we go:
I got this 1851 model Colt Navy antique unseen from an auction site. It obviously was a mixture of parts from back then and in rather bad condition, though the bore was pristine. After a lot of gunsmithing it amazed me as the best gun I ever shot. Straight. Tight groups. No cap issues. Mind you, I started out as a Remington 1858 addict (and still am) but I must admit that the Colt Navy is rather classy.

[Captainkirk]

Don't know if this is the right thread, but here we go:
I got this 1851 model Colt Navy antique unseen from an auction site. It obviously was a mixture of parts from back then and in rather bad condition, though the bore was pristine. After a lot of gunsmithing it amazed me as the best gun I ever shot. Straight. Tight groups. No cap issues. Mind you, I started out as a Remington 1858 addict (and still am) but I must admit that the Colt Navy is rather classy.

We have all traveled a similar road, Len. And we all wind up...here!

[Krylandalian]

More on this.  I have   m a n y  Colts., and I fire them.

I had to get rid of half of the Signature Colts due to functional/asthetic problems.  I would ve  gotten rid of another, but it is just too unique and I ll  get it refitted so I can fire it (3rd Dragoon/shoulder stock).  Actually, the only reason I have the Signatures is because Colt didn t  make these variations.

Ironically, the   b e s t  fit/finished and firing is a Signature WH Dragoon, and the worst!, is an Authentic Walker!!!
Both series are hit and miss.  The Authentics are much better though, and   m u c h   better than   a n y   replica (notwithstanding exceptions).  None of my Authentics (including 'C' Series) have base pin/barell headspace (short arbor). Most of the Signatures I had and have do!!!

As far as the feel and look etc, there s  nothing like holding an Authentic Colt and seeing the various Colt markings, the bluing etc. Someone once refered to it as 'Cachet'. Overall, the attention to them in creating them is nothing short of masterful!!!  Even the offer that came with them,- Gold Shooters Pin (I have a pin for all of mine, that the pin offer came with).

Signature Colts are more like 'Brevetes' (CBAC went to Colt and asked for permission to create/continue them. Colt conditionally agreed with no liability.  Sometimes people argue by stating that Colt didn t  make the original Walker either, E. Whitney did etc.  The   h u g e   difference between the two is Colt asked/contracted Whitney to! With oversight and ultimate ownership, responsibility and liability, whereas CBAC went to Colt. Colt didn t  'want' to.  A   b i g   difference here).

Signature Colts also have various geometry variations/inaccuracies. E.g,- barrel address is generically sized. It fits the Walker   a n d   Dragoons. The stamping is too deep also,.

[G Dog]

I'm going to throw my repros away, they're no good.

[Krylandalian]

It s  probably that,  it s  not that they re  'no good' more than you re  not handling/maintaining them properly. If you re  not interested in having someone check them for you/show you how to op/maintain them, it may be better to sell them or something.

Instead of throwing them away, offer them to someone else who can appreciate them for what they are.

[Hawg]

I'm going to throw my repros away, they're no good.

Suuuuure ya are. 

[Captainkirk]

Personally, I've found a wide swing in QC on many of the repros I own. Probably one of the highest quality Remington repros I have is an older Lyman (Navy Arms) version. Colt repros...I've got some real stinkers along with some good ones. I have no doubt that the Second Gen Colts are likely superior to your run of the mill Pietta or Uberti, but for what they cost compared to minor QC issues...I'll live with the difference.

[Krylandalian]

I ve  been firing actuals/replicas for some time.  I have seen a definite trend of the actual Colts ('reissues') having the least problems.

One   v e r y   unique replica I had was that 2nd Dragoon that you now have Captain.   V E R Y   Well built, fit, finished and firing.  I put a lot of charges through that thing while I had it (30 yrs +)  It was timed well, accurate and just as good as it gets.  I ve  never had any real trouble with it.  I replaced cones, 1 trigger/bolt spring and that s  it!

[Captainkirk]

I ve  been firing actuals/replicas for some time.  I have seen a definite trend of the actual Colts ('reissues') having the least problems.

One   v e r y   unique replica I had was that 2nd Dragoon that you now have Captain.   V E R Y   Well built, fit, finished and firing.  I put a lot of charges through that thing while I had it (30 yrs +)  It was timed well, accurate and just as good as it gets.  I ve  never had any real trouble with it.  I replaced cones, 1 trigger/bolt spring and that s  it!

You mean "Joaquin Murietta"?

[45 Dragoon]

I'm sorry but there isn't a reproduction or "authentic" Colt pattern revolver made that doesn't have a short arbor (except for the late Piettas). That's all there is to it! Folks can dream all they want,  but the fact is .  .  .  .  they're all short!!  They (authentic) and the various makers in the 70's, 80's, 90's  all have basically crap for action parts!  I haven't seen one even close to the originals. The springs are way too heavy, the parts finish (factory) are a joke, the parts are soft,  of all the 2nd gens I've worked on (or any other for that matter), none are "perfect" as is.  I guess "perfect"  must have a W-I-D-E  spec. for some .  .  .   but I think more that one would change their "perspective" of "perfection" if they ever actually handle a truly tuned and properly appointed S.A. revolver. One that "hurrys" effortlessly through its cycle, has every "click" expected, slams home into battery with a resounding  SMACK and waiting for you to pull the trigger!!
   You won't find that in a $400 (or + premium for "authentic") revolver.  I talked this afternoon with a good customer that just bought a $1400.00  Pedersoli top of the line Remington  that said he'd be sending that one to me as well.  It's that " eye of the beholder " thing!! 

 I reckon it all really boils down to ones experience as to what "better" is.  Looks is one thing,  (some care, some don't) fit and finish (most "respect" a nice  fit) but a S.A.s action is definitely where "quality" of the revolvers ability comes through! A truly, perfectly timed, smooth as silk, snappy .  .  .  reads your mind with almost no effort .  .  . is real "perfection" in any package!!

Mike

www.goonsgunworks.com
Follow me on Instagram @ goonsgunworks

[Krylandalian]

Well, 45 Dragoon. That s  quite a claim!

When I can insert the barrel wedge where it tightly fits, all the while   w i t h o u t   it changing the cylinder/barrel gap, and fire it more than many times, for more than many years, including Dragoons, without any barrel/wedge loosening/distortions, this tells me that there is no short arbor 'problem'. Whether it has been technically determined to be short or otherwise.

[Hawg]

Well, 45 Dragoon. That s  quite a claim!

When I can insert the barrel wedge where it tightly fits, all the while   w i t h o u t   it changing the cylinder/barrel gap, and fire it more than many times, for more than many years, including Dragoons, without any barrel/wedge loosening/distortions, this tells me that there is no short arbor 'problem'. Whether it has been technically determined to be short or otherwise.

Give that wedge a good smack and I'll bet it binds the cylinder against the forcing cone.

[45 Dragoon]

   Yap, that's quite a claim and I'll stand by it.  Your "method" for checking is a little lacking.
  The only way you can truly check the arbor/hole fitment is to put a very thin washer in the hole and assemble the two assemblies. If you can, then how did that happen?  If you can't, someone has already "fixed" it or, you have an anomaly and it's worth a fortune!!
    Wouldn't you think that if 2nd gens (et al) were correct, I'd know that? But, I've had to "correct" every single one that has come through here. In fact, quite often, these particular revolvers are some of the worst! As far as I know, I'm the only one or one of very few that will even work on them. I don't say that to discourage, not at all, it just proves that they CAN be turned into (truly) excellent revolvers and can be made to withstand the life of a competition revolver!!

   I just find it hard to believe that in 4+ years, as many revolvers that have filtered through here, not one 2nd gen., Sig. series, Uberti, ASM, older Pietta,ASP .  .  .  .  whatever your flavor .  .  . has had a correct length arbor. The first one that DID have a correct fit was a 1st gen '60 Army made in 1863.  The machine marks in the frame were rather disappointing, the hand slot looked like it was drilled three times and then "cleaned" out. Bottom line though,  the arbor fit (bottomed out) the parts and springs were "quality" ( possibly the originals but definitely 1st gen parts) and after all this time,  excellent timing!

  All  the reproductions would pretty much put the originals to shame in a side by side comparison as far as manufacturing but fitment means everything! The originals had it, the reproductions don't.

   That's a personal observation from me and my experience, doesn't mean  I can't be wrong (I'd have to see every one made  and I doubt I will)  but, I'd say the odds would have allowed at least one in the shop .  .  .  .  and it ain't showed up yet!!

Mike

www.goonsgunworks.com
Follow me on Instagram @ goonsgunworks