Old discusion again

[bigted]

  ok so i see that this discussion has lapsed and should be brought up again to see if any new process is being utilized.

Subject ... wads ... greased wads or just over grease.

I have read that Sam Colt mentioned that the lube is key to accuracy. I have proven this myself with over the ball lube. I have used homade lube of the bee wax mix as well as SPG and the old standby ... crisco.

Never had good luck with the lubed wad but others have.

Still others have used nothing at all for lube

So lets open with the discussion and your reasons why ... in the navies ... you load the 36 navy the way you do and opinions on lube and where it should go.

[drobs]

I made up my 1st ever batch of lube from Crisco, Beeswax, and Paraffin wax this last Christmas. Melted it all together and dipped my homemade felt wads in there. Did some 25yd gong shooting with them and my 1860 Army. Seemed to work fine.

Fast forward to this last July, was shooting the same lubed wads out of my new 1858 Remington Sheriff at paper targets, shots were all over the target - no grouping at all. Shot some at my 25yd gong and was hitting it. Noticed there were wads at the base of the gong. That tells me the wads were sticking to the ball as they traveled down range. That most likely caused the shots on paper to be all over the place.

I believe, wads should fall off a few feet /yds past the end of the muzzle.

Was also shooting my new 36 cal Pietta 51 Navy at the same time. Meant to cut some felt wads but didn't get around to it. Started shooting it with lube over ball. Mostly shot it with no lube at all as my tube of Bore Butter was splashing me with yellow liquid. 

I think my plan is to go back to - powder, dry felt wad, lube, and ball. That combo gave me the best accuracy.
I'll try adding more Crisco or Lard to my batch of lube to if that reduces the stickiness.

YMMV

[G Dog]

Hi - I use soaked felt wads quite often and have found that a card between the ball and the wad prevents the wad from sticking to and traveling with the lead.  I usually use punched out half gallon milk container material for use as a barrier between a lubed wad and the powder (non-permeable) but it works well against the ball too for preventing that ‘sticking’ phenomena. 

For the record - I use a paraffin, bee's wax, olive oil concoction in various proportions to fit the season and ambient temps.

[Fingers McGee]

I've been shooting CAS for almost 20 years, 15 of them using various percussion pistols with lubed wads of one kind or another.  The only time I had any contamination problems was when I was using some off the wall wads by a guy that wasn't very good at quality control.  Needless to say, I quit using his wads (I think I still have some of them if anybody wants them).  For the past 5 or more years I've been using wads from Sage Outfitters.  They have served me well.  I've never had a misfire or a squib using these wads.

My current standard 1851/1861 Navy load is 22.5 grains by weight of fffg Olde Eynsford (that's what a 21 gr marked flask spout throws).  Sage outfitters .36 Cal lubed felt wad; .380 cast lead roundball from The Log Cabin Shop; ignited by a #10 Remington percussion cap on a Slix Shot nipple.

http://www.sageoutfitters.com/Muzzleloader.html
http://logcabinshop.com/catalog.php?route=product/product&path=184_157_15&product_id=24935
http://cowboybullets.com/SliX-Products_c_15.html

[GaryC]

Hello all.  I used to make lubed felt wads, then lube pills.  Now I just put in powder, then use a knife blade to put lube over the powder and then seat the ball on top of it.  Quick and simple.  Lube is made from beeswax lanolin and olive oil in varying proportion depending on the time of year. The lube under the ball seems to work best for me.   

One summer a couple of years ago I was using a cardboard box as a target stand at maybe 7 yards and had put several paper targets up and caught the thing on fire with a lubed wads.   

Cheers
Gary

[mike116]

I've used lubed wads of several different brands and had success with most of them but I've stopped using them last couple years in favor lube cookies (a lube pill sandwiched between two thin card wads).   I make the lube pills myself and drop a card then a lube pill and another card on top of the powder, then seat the ball or bullet.   I also make paper cartridges in the same manner.   Lube under the projectile has always worked better than lube over the ball for me.

GaryC,  I have had flaming lubed wads ignite  dry grass while shooting heavy loads also.

[Hawg]

I use wads lubed with olive oil. They don't stick to the balls and so far haven't contaminated powder but I don't let them sit long. They feel dry so I really don't think they will contaminate it over time but I can't say for sure.

[bigted]

So all you wad users, question or two.

How long will your 51/61 run with your lubed wads? How bout longevity of accuracy?

Reason i ask these questions is that thick or thin , hot or cold, i run over ball lube and when doing so my barrel remains lubed and acccuracy remains as long as i desire to shoot. My cleanup is a snap and usually takes only two or three wet scrub patch's and three maybe dry and a heavily lubed patch.

I guess i wanna hear that your lubed wads do all and more then my over ball lube.

I rest upon the historic way [ as far as i can ascertain ] i do my c&b revolvers but i still have a lot to learn. Having said this, i wonder how much "RANGE TIME" the Old Dead Guys did. I would really like to find accounts written in the day describing the methods and supplies used for such "practice" times.

As far as i can find, the folks that carried them back in the day, did so DRY. Doing so, i readily see that the every day carry was not in preparation of finding themselves suddenly in a prolonged fight where the revolver might be used for an hours long gunfight where reloading was a thing to be prepared for.

Also wonder what accuracy they held out for and if our 1.5 to 3 inch 20 yard accuracy was/is comparatively similar to their expectations.

[drobs]

So all you wad users, question or two.

How long will your 51/61 run with your lubed wads? How bout longevity of accuracy?

Reason i ask these questions is that thick or thin , hot or cold, i run over ball lube and when doing so my barrel remains lubed and acccuracy remains as long as i desire to shoot. My cleanup is a snap and usually takes only two or three wet scrub patch's and three maybe dry and a heavily lubed patch.

I guess i wanna hear that your lubed wads do all and more then my over ball lube.

I rest upon the historic way [ as far as i can ascertain ] i do my c&b revolvers but i still have a lot to learn. Having said this, i wonder how much "RANGE TIME" the Old Dead Guys did. I would really like to find accounts written in the day describing the methods and supplies used for such "practice" times.

As far as i can find, the folks that carried them back in the day, did so DRY. Doing so, i readily see that the every day carry was not in preparation of finding themselves suddenly in a prolonged fight where the revolver might be used for an hours long gunfight where reloading was a thing to be prepared for.

Also wonder what accuracy they held out for and if our 1.5 to 3 inch 20 yard accuracy was/is comparatively similar to their expectations.

Well I lube my arbor with bore butter and I find I can go about 5 days shooting a cylinder or 3 every day without cleaning. I just step out my back door and shoot. By day 6, I start getting antsy and usually break down and clean it on day 7.

I'm sure that wasn't the answer you were looking for.

[G Dog]

I'm sure that wasn't the answer you were looking for.

Nor expecting.

Drobs, maybe you should clarify that statement.  You’re an experienced shooter and I can hardly believe you let your pistols sit around for a week without at least cleaning out the bore and chambers.  I know when you’re not in Missouri you have very low humidity - but seven days?  What with hydroscopic residue and all I’d be a’skert to do that anywhere in the world.


As to old timer's range time - given that factory carts typically came in packets of six, if they weren't in war time or indian/bandit country I expect they did not do much range time.  I'd bet we, most of us now, are better pistol shots than most of the old boys cause we practice all the time. 

[Hawg]

I'm sure that wasn't the answer you were looking for.

Nor expecting.

Drobs, maybe you should clarify that statement.  You’re an experienced shooter and I can hardly believe you let your pistols sit around for a week without at least cleaning out the bore and chambers.  I know when you’re not in Missouri you have very low humidity - but seven days?  What with hydroscopic residue and all I’d be a’skert to do that anywhere in the world.


As to old timer's range time - given that factory carts typically came in packets of six, if they weren't in war time or indian/bandit country I expect they did not do much range time.  I'd bet we, most of us now, are better pistol shots than most of the old boys cause we practice all the time.

Think what you want but I have very high humidity and I've gone nine days without cleaning or shooting. I frequently go two or three days without cleaning. I try to clean the same day it just doesn't always work out that way. You're right the old timers shot very little and most of them probably couldn't hit the side of a barn from any distance.

[drobs]

I'm sure that wasn't the answer you were looking for.

Nor expecting.

Drobs, maybe you should clarify that statement.  You’re an experienced shooter and I can hardly believe you let your pistols sit around for a week without at least cleaning out the bore and chambers.  I know when you’re not in Missouri you have very low humidity - but seven days?  What with hydroscopic residue and all I’d be a’skert to do that anywhere in the world.


As to old timer's range time - given that factory carts typically came in packets of six, if they weren't in war time or indian/bandit country I expect they did not do much range time.  I'd bet we, most of us now, are better pistol shots than most of the old boys cause we practice all the time.

Think what you want but I have very high humidity and I've gone nine days without cleaning or shooting. I frequently go two or three days without cleaning. I try to clean the same day it just doesn't always work out that way. You're right the old timers shot very little and most of them probably couldn't hit the side of a barn from any distance.

I concur with Hawg. If I'm going to be shooting a C&B Colt revolver every day over the course of a week, I've found that these guns can take it. They don't rust overnight or even over the coarse of 7 days. If I'm shooting every day at my gong but then want to check accuracy on paper, I'll at most will clean the barrel.

Day 6 or 7 I'll hose the gun off with the garden hose, and give it a good cleaning + lubing.

I think the common belief of needing to clean a BP revolver immediately after shooting it is a little over done.
 

[ssb73q]

Hi Ted, the length of shooting before cleaning is required is very dependent on the propellant used. BP tends to foul easily while I have gone over 100rds with Black Mz before fouling was a problem. I use Sagebrush lubed wads in my .31, 36, and .44s. I do use 50/50% olive oil/beeswax for overball lube sometimes, but even that stiff lube is messy compared to lubed wads.

I'm an anal retentive when it comes to cleaning revolvers the same day after shooting. I strip down the revolver, wash in soapy water, and then dry in an oven at 250 dF for 1/2 hour. The parts are then sprayed with Ballistol and reassembled. I try to keep my over 50 BP revolvers as close to pristine as possible. When I don't want to clean up the same day shooting, I shoot conversion cylinders with smokeless and then clean them like any modern handgun the next day. Did I say I'm an anal retentive?

Regards,
Richard

[GaryC]

I have let cleaning go for a couple of days with black powder with no ill effect, though I generally clean the same day I shoot.  This would NOT apply to Pyrodex which I have found is more corrosive than BP.  I think how long you can go w/o cleaning depends on humidity and and on how effective your lube is.

Gary

[Len]

A beloved thread theme "Re: Old discussion again"
I think I've done full circle, and am now back to where I once started. Propellant (Swiss or Tripple7) + maybe some polenta + ball (or bullet) + over ball grease (mutton lard and bees wax 50-50). But I do use wads from time to time, just to vary the diet. Haven't really found any negative results with any of these methods. I'm just satisfied if the grouping is within "the torso" from 25 meters. As to cleaning, I clean after every outing. I'm shooting originals, so have to take good care.