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Author Topic: Dance Wannabe #2  (Read 14437 times)

Offline Marshal Will

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Dance Wannabe #2
« on: September 08, 2020, 06:54:45 AM »
With the new brass grip frame assemby I got from Fingers (thumbs up there, Ken), I decided it was time to get started on Dance Wannabe #2. I didn't like the very large grip size on the new 2020 vintage Pietta 1851 in .44 (the gun that never was, but I needed a second one to match up to wannabe #1). Side note: for those of you who find the Army grip more to your liking, you might want to try the new Pietta Navy shape. It's taller than an original Colt by 1/4" which I think would make it as long as an Army grip. It's also longer front to rear by 1/4" than the older Pietta grip shape and wider in the wood considerably.


In addition, the new-to-me frame assy is old enough to be free of that ugly shoulder stock notch in the bottom so it's more historically correct for this type of project.

I had to cut the trigger off to fit in the older style triggerguard which is much more historically accurate looking,too. The new one is way too big to look correct and lopsided, too. Then I put the trigger guard on the pistol to start fitting the backstrap. At least that was the plan but Pietta has changed the angle they drilled the screws into the frame. The screws held the front of the trigger guard way off the frame.


I thought if I carefully elongated the holes at the front below the very thin shoulder the screw makes purchase on, and also the rear side above that shoulder, it would allow the grip frame to fit flush. If that worked, it would pull the whole assembly back slightly and I would need to draw file the back of the sides to again be flush with the rear of the frame. Also the front screw would be off slightly and that hole would need to be adjusted. I attached the trigger guard with just the front screw so I could look into the rear holes to see just how much I'd need to file the holes and if it would be feasable. That screw didn't even fit into the hole due to the angle the front screw goes into the frame, too.


I decided it was going to be more trouble than it was worth to get all that to work and still have a shoulder for the screws to purchase securely onto. Instead, I fitted the old style backstrap to the 2020 trigger guard. That involved a whole lot of bending in several different places plus bending the whole frame to the side and twisting it. I wonder if the Pietta workers have to do that kind of work to get these things together.

Once the hole in the lower strap lined up properly with the trigger guard piece, I adjusted the heel of the backstrap to remove some of the kick out Pietta puts in them (I had needed to do this to the older pistol, too). The lower strap now protrudes a bit ahead of the front of the trigger guard frame. I will still have to take that down flush but will do that when I make grips for it. I may also take a slight bit off the upper part of the trigger guard to get closer to the shape of an original 1851 but I have to take some measurements to insure the whole grip won't be too narrow in that area. Also when I mill (grind, file, sand) off the recoil shields, I will fit and polish the upper part of the backstrap to match the frame. I tried the hammer to make sure it still traveled without binding so that's good to go. I will also have to do something about that wierd trigger guard shape. Just what, I haven't decided yet. Probably it will mean cutting a section out of the front of the trigger guard and squaring it off some Here is how it is at this time.


Thanks, Ken. The new (old) grip frame assembly makes this project much easier. I was looking at some much harder work than this to get the thing to fit my hand. The project will take some time to complete due to time available after a couple weeks (impending hip surgery will delay things for a while but I'll get things done as I can). Be patient, pards.

edit: In the first paragraph I clalrified that the new Pietta was compared to an original Colt SAA grip shape in height. Sorry for any confusion, there.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2020, 10:22:57 PM by Marshal Will »

Offline Captainkirk

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Re: Dance Wannabe #2
« Reply #1 on: September 08, 2020, 08:04:01 AM »
Looking great! Can't wait for the follow up threads!
"You gonna pull those pistols, or whistle Dixie?"

Offline Marshal Will

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Re: Dance Wannabe #2
« Reply #2 on: September 08, 2020, 08:32:13 AM »
Thanks, Capt. I've been looking forward to doing this one.

Offline ShotgunDave

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Re: Dance Wannabe #2
« Reply #3 on: September 08, 2020, 09:44:40 AM »
You've done a bang up job on that one Marshal. I've never seen one drilled slanted like that.
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Offline Marshal Will

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Re: Dance Wannabe #2
« Reply #4 on: September 08, 2020, 11:03:13 AM »
Thanks, Dave. I'd guess the early ones were drilled perpendicular to the bottom of the frame and at some point they changed to drilling them parallel to the rear of the frame. Or at least that's what it looks like without actually measuring the angle of the holes.

Offline Marshal Will

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Re: Dance Wannabe #2
« Reply #5 on: September 28, 2020, 10:24:09 PM »
Just a quick update here. I got the conversion cylinder installed. The hand needed serious shortening. After scratching my head a couple times and fiddling, I finally got the thing to cycle fully with the trigger guard and mainspring on it. When I put the back strap and grip on, it wouldn't cycle all the way. I removed the backstrap and grip and it worked. After more head scratching it occured to me that the backstrap was limiting how far the hammer would travel and not allowing the hand to get that last little bit of cylinder rotation needed for the bolt to click into the notch. I filed a little off the backstrap to let the hammer travel a bit further and everything worked. I talked to Walt Kirst and he said that he does the same thing with ones that are like that. This backstrap is not the one that will be on it in the final  assembly so I didn't mind experimenting. Once the new backstrap is polished down, it may not need this done, or at least maybe not as much.



The bolt timing has the bolt rising where it would on a 6-shot cylinder and with a 5-shot one, that's a bit early. Come to find out, this is not uncommon with these 5-shot cylinders. Note that the loading gate is open. I haven't cut the loading channel yet. I wanted to get it all working right before doing that.



I did check the parts and found a bad spot on the hammer cam that either was trashed at the factory or the cam itself isn't hardened properly and it got worn off in just a few cycles of the action. Either way, I have a new hammer and bolt on the way and will install that to see if that helps the situation any.



As to the surgery, it got postponed so I have a couple more weeks to play with some of this stuff.


Offline ShotgunDave

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Re: Dance Wannabe #2
« Reply #6 on: September 29, 2020, 10:44:52 AM »
Glad to see progress on Dance #2 is coming along.

That bolt cam does look pretty boogered up. That will make for a "crunchy" action for sure.
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Offline Marshal Will

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Re: Dance Wannabe #2
« Reply #7 on: September 29, 2020, 12:19:09 PM »
Thanks, Dave. It's nice to have a couple weeks of unexpected time to get some work done.

Been fitting grip frame this morning but nothing is completed yet. Just a lot of draw filing and looking at things.

I just got a shipping notice on the hammer and bolt from VTI. That was fast. I just ordered yesterday and was told that the hammer would not be in stock for a few days.

Offline Captainkirk

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Re: Dance Wannabe #2
« Reply #8 on: September 29, 2020, 12:39:43 PM »
That new hammer will make a world of difference, Will.
"You gonna pull those pistols, or whistle Dixie?"

Offline ShotgunDave

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Re: Dance Wannabe #2
« Reply #9 on: September 29, 2020, 01:00:22 PM »
VTI is great. Some of the best service in the business.

I ordered a bunch of parts for one of my Dragoon pistols last week. About an hour after I put the order in, I got a phone call from them. The wonderful lady wanted to let me know that although the website said the parts were in stock, they were in fact not. She also informed me that they never would be either. (ASM Dragoon) So she made sure my card wasn't charged and then apologized for the mixup. All of that could have been handled with an email, but she chose personal service instead. That's awesome to me.
"Never trust an actor with a gun."
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Offline Marshal Will

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Re: Dance Wannabe #2
« Reply #10 on: September 29, 2020, 01:25:54 PM »
That new hammer will make a world of difference, Will.
Thanks. I expect it will, Capt.

VTI is great. Some of the best service in the business.

I ordered a bunch of parts for one of my Dragoon pistols last week. About an hour after I put the order in, I got a phone call from them. The wonderful lady wanted to let me know that although the website said the parts were in stock, they were in fact not. She also informed me that they never would be either. (ASM Dragoon) So she made sure my card wasn't charged and then apologized for the mixup. All of that could have been handled with an email, but she chose personal service instead. That's awesome to me.
I'm totally impressed with their service. You don't find that very often these days.

Offline sourdough

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Re: Dance Wannabe #2
« Reply #11 on: September 29, 2020, 02:02:21 PM »
VTI is great. I find that Taylor's is not so much, but when I called Taylor's about an order last Spring the CS was very good. VTI is more pro-active.
We have met the enemy, and they is us. Pogo

Offline Marshal Will

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Re: Dance Wannabe #2
« Reply #12 on: September 29, 2020, 02:15:37 PM »
I've ordered from Taylor's in the past and have always been treated well. I've never ordered parts from them, though, so I can't speak to that.

Offline Gray Fox

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Re: Dance Wannabe #2
« Reply #13 on: September 29, 2020, 02:36:04 PM »
I've never dealt with VTI, but have had very nice dealings with Taylor's customer service and gunsmiths.  GF

Offline Captainkirk

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Re: Dance Wannabe #2
« Reply #14 on: September 29, 2020, 05:18:33 PM »
I just had a conversation with someone at Taylor's two days ago. I asked why the literature that came with their 1858 drop-in conversion advised to do BP handloads with 2F rather than 3F, as I normally load with. He did not know, so he transferred me to a much more experienced gentleman...who did not know either. When I suggested maybe it might be because 2F fills the case higher to ensure a compressed load with BP, he took the ball and ran with it and agreed with me. In short, he did not give me the answer, but rather, let me draw my own conclusions. I don't particularly like that. You sell something and send out instructions with it, you should damn well know your product, it's limitations, and everything in between IMHO. He also tried to discourage my intended use of BP in my loads, stating that I'd have a rough time cleaning brass, and that everyone in SASS and CAS shot Trail Boss (which right now is unobtanium).
« Last Edit: September 29, 2020, 05:20:17 PM by Captainkirk »
"You gonna pull those pistols, or whistle Dixie?"