1860 2nd Gen Loading Issues

[Hawg]

No, that wont have any effect on it. From the pics it looks like half the bullet is sticking out of the cylinder. A J&D should work fine with a 30 grain charge. I don't see that little bit of chamber step taking up that much powder space. To me it looks like your powder charge is 40 grains or better. Do you have a scale you can weigh a charge on?

No scale. And aren’t you supposed to be measuring by volume and not weight?

You can weigh real bp and 30 grains will be right at 30 grains with some differential between grain sizes. Subs wont do that is why they are measured by volume.

[Ambaryerno]

So I found a small cooking scale. It doesn't measure grains, but it will do 1/10 gram increments. I measured out a charge using my 30 grain spout and weighed it at 1.8g, which comes to about 27 grains. I lost a couple grains because of the pad of my finger sinking into the end of the spout when I blocked it for filling, so the measure appears to be accurate by weight.

[Hawg]

Then I have no clue. You can try reaming the chambers out or you can reduce the powder charge or stick to round balls.

[Ambaryerno]

I'm thinking of taking it in to a smith to have them give it a look over, as maybe there's something that someone just needs to have it in their hands to see.

[Ambaryerno]

So the plot thickens:

I went ahead and picked up an adjustable measure to remove any further doubt over the accuracy of my measure spout. It's a pistol measure with charges from 5 to 45.

So first of all, my 30 grain spout is still showing to be accurate. The amount matches between the spout, the adjustable measure, and by weight. HOWEVER this time when I actually put powder into the chamber it didn't fill it to the top like it did when I tested the other night (I haven't tried loading a ball yet).

Also, while doing testing, that little gate/door/whatever on the inside of the mouth of the powder flask FELL OFF and dropped down into the flask (yay, now I need to see if I can actually open the flask all the way to get it back).

So now I'm wondering if maybe that door wasn't seated right, so when I went to fill the chamber it MEASURED accurately from the spout, but didn't seal so when I actually went to load the powder more came out when I upended the flask.

[ShotgunDave]

It sounds like you may have found the problem!

[Hawg]

I know it was sounding like an episode of The Twilight Zone for a while.

[mazo kid]

Methinks you have found the problem!

[tljack]

That was my initial thought. Is it throwing 30 grains?

[Ambaryerno]

That was my initial thought. Is it throwing 30 grains?

Well, like I said it was MEASURING 30 grains with the spout. The problem was that it may have been leaking when I actually filled the chamber, so ended up with more than was measured.

[bigted]

I ALWAYS measure powder with a KNOWN powder measure separate from the spout on my flask. I do this for a couple reasons.

Frist is the danger of holding a hand grenade meaning that IF thete be a spark left in the chamber, my charge directly from the flask COULD ignite and walla ... blown up hand.

Second being known that my charge is EXACTLY what I desire and not contingent on the spout being sealed off FOR SURE from the flask powder. Using a separate measure separate from the flask makes it impossible for the measure to hold anything but my desired charge.

Your problem makes me wonder about two things. Maybe using powder that is not pure Black Powder ... or ... not throwing your proper desired charge while using the spout.

I suggest trying your 5 to 45 or such adjustable measure to meter your charge into the chamber. Will this allow your bullet to seat?     

[DBrevit]

The Eras gone bullet is .460 from the mid point forward, the charge holes in the cylinder are more than likely .450 , this will be a tight fit and may be the reason you can't push it home, the round ball shaves a little off on the way in and has a short bearing surface along with a short overall length and is the reason it fits. What round ball size are you shooting ?

[Navy Six]

Ambaryerno, are you sure which J&D bullet you have there? It is hard to tell from your pictures, but Eras Gone is selling a J&D Dragoon bullet that is longer than their  standard 44 bullet. They look similar, but the Dragoon bullet is listed at a length of .800. If you have any remaining bullets and can measure them, and they are .800, that bullet would be too long for your powder charge ( or any reasonable one)you are trying to use in an 1860 Army. If you watch the Eras Gone video where this Dragoon bullet is being loaded into a Uberti 2nd model Dragoon, they were just able to squeeze 30 grs of powder under that bullet, even in that huge Dragoon cylinder.

[Ambaryerno]

I used this one here:

https://www.thejeffersonarsenal.com/product-page/44-johnston-dow-pistol-conicals-60rds

According to the site it’s made using the Era’s Gone mold. Once I got that adjustable measure to test load without using the flask spout I was able to load it with 30 grain. Still working on paper cartridges, tho.

[drobs]

Sounds like you figured out the issue.

I like to fill a chamber of my Pietta's with powder then dump that, carefully, into my powder measure to see how much powder will fill the chambers. IIRC my 44 1860 Piettas will take 40gr of FFFg and my 36 cal 1851 Navy Piettas will take 30gr of powder.

It is possible to ram (with effort) a soft round ball on top of those chamber full charges. The ball will deform.