Ruger Old Army with 209 shotgun primer nipples.

[Necessaryevil]

Well I bought these for my Ruger Old Army stainless when I was in England three years ago at the Birmingham gun show from A and A gunsmiths in Lincolnshire England.

The idea being that 209 shotgun primers IN THEORY make my Ruger Old Army revolver a 100% reliable defensive revolver, eliminating 19th century caps which are not 100% reliable in my experience.

Yes I have a Glock 17 and a Sig Sauer P228 and a Colt Cobra .38 but here as in many other countries in Europe we don’t have the same options for a defensive pistol that you guys have in the U.S.

My modern cartridge pistols all of them superb defensive weapons have to be locked up in a safe by law when stored in the home. Not so for BP revolvers modern and original, shotguns and .22 rifles. You can store then in a wardrobe or certainly ready to hand for the likes of a home invasion scenario.

Alan makes these nipples specifically for CCI 209 shotgun primers. I have been reloading metallic pistol and rifle cartridges since 1986, small pistol primers, large pistol primers, small rifle and large rifle primers.

I had no idea of the variation in dimensions of 209 shotshell primers. I tried all different makes commonly available in Spain because I just couldn’t get CCI 209’s locally I tried various makes available locally NONE of them fitted the A+A nipples.

Well last week I was browsing the website of Armeria Trelles in Northern Spain and they have CCI 209’s on stock and they ship them via courier. I ordered some. They were delivered 48hrs later.

So I screwed the 209 shotshell primer nipples into the Ruger cylinder and headed off to the range today…….Finally.

Alan told me that because there is no breech face like a cartridge gun you have to use reduced loads to reduce the pressure so that the 209 primers don’t mushroom backwards and jam into the slot for the hammer jamming the cylinder.

Bearing that in mind I have 2 different sizes of plastic vials. The small ones a level scoop of 777 gives 9 grains by weight which I use for my original .36 cal Colt Navy.

Same vials with a level scoop give 10 grains by weight of Santa Barbara BP.

The second size, level scoop they give 25 grains by weight of Santa Barbara BP the normal load I use in my Ruger and Uberti 1858.

First off I tried a single vial of 9 grains of 777, topped off with a dry felt wad, 3.5cc scoop of semolina, a .457 round ball and home made beeswax olive oil lube.

BOOM off it went, on an IPSC target at 12 metres printed just left of the aiming mark. I poked the spent primer out with a dental pick via the flash hole no problem. A very light load, reliable for sure but no good for defence.

Next one two vials of 777, 18 grains in weight same round ball etc. BOOM, printed slightly left and a fraction higher. Better, much better but I felt like a bit more OOMPH was needed for a defensive load. No mushrooming of the primer which looked like it hadn’t been fired.

3rd was two vials of Santa Barbara BP giving 20 grains by weight. Printed slightly left of the aiming mark very close to it. The primer was fine, still nice and flat no issues.
Pretty much the same as the 18 grains of 777 but more smoke…….. getting there.


4th was a vial containing 25 grains (by weight) of Santa Barbara BP, this is the normal load I use in the Ruger and the Uberti, I have chronographed this in the past and you REALLY WOULDN’T want get in the way of it.

BOOM, touched off printed nearly touching the aiming point and yeah you could feel it was a proper load giving the right velocity. The primer pushed out no problem and had mushroomed very slightly, but no issues it did not stop the cylinder rotating as normal.

5th was three 9 grain vials of 777, equaling 27 grains by weight. BOOM touched off BUT the primer mushroomed back jamming into the hammer slot in the breach face jamming the cylinder. USELESS !

I had to pull the base pin and hammer the cylinder out of the frame with a plastic mallet.  Definitely no use whatsoever, not even target shooting !

So I carried on shooting 25 grains of SB black powder with no issues at all.

Would I trust this Ruger using 209 shotgun primers as a reliable defensive handgun ?

First impressions I’d say YES but I need to do a bit more testing yet, next time with a chronograph.

[Len]

Thanks for the report, NE
Interesting!
Are the nipples tapered inside?

[Zulch]

Necessaryevil, thank you for that thorough and in depth post. I enjoyed the read👍 Tim

[Necessaryevil]

Len,

Yes the nipples are tapered inside. But the different dimensions among the different brand of 209's is incredible. One would assume that they would all be the same like rifle and pistol primers, but noooooo !

[Necessaryevil]

Necessaryevil, thank you for that thorough and in depth post. I enjoyed the read👍 Timv'e not had the chance to try them for 3 years

Thanks Tim, something a bit unusual for the members to peruse. Glad you liked it 

[Zulch]

Len,

Yes the nipples are tapered inside. But the different dimensions among the different brand of 209's is incredible. One would assume that they would all be the same like rifle and pistol primers, but noooooo !

Wow… that’s a pita?!! No uniformity from brand to brand? 🤬

[Zulch]

Necessaryevil, thank you for that thorough and in depth post. I enjoyed the read👍 Timv'e not had the chance to try them for 3 years

Thanks Tim, something a bit unusual for the members to peruse. Glad you liked it 

I really liked the supporting photos too Necessaryevil. That cylinder is beautiful by the way👍 . So you’ve just now had the time to try them out it sounds? Thanks Tim

[Necessaryevil]

Tim

Yep correct, would you believe it ? I bought the nipples in England on a visit to the Isles of Gloom about three years ago. They are machined specifically for CCI 209 primers.

When I got them back to Spain I found out that CCI's weren't available locally to Malaga. So I tried different brands RIO, RWS etc, NOPE none of them worked. The nearest ones were some that I punched out of some French cartridges that I cut open, but they wouldn't seat all the way.

Then EUREKA Armeria Trelles in northern Spain now stocks CCI 209's 

[Zulch]

Tim

Yep correct, would you believe it ? I bought the nipples in England on a visit to the Isles of Gloom about three years ago. They are machined specifically for CCI 209 primers.

When I got them back to Spain I found out that CCI's weren't available locally to Malaga. So I tried different brands RIO, RWS etc, NOPE none of them worked. The nearest ones were some that I punched out of some French cartridges that I cut open, but they wouldn't seat all the way.

Then EUREKA Armeria Trelles in northern Spain now stocks CCI 209's 

Well I’m happy that they stock CCI 209s👍 Great story by the way, 😊.  You went round and round there for awhile before the Eureka moment. Sounds like your perseverance paid off in the end. 

[Necessaryevil]

Yes Sir

I got there in the end 

When I started to clean the Ruger when I got home I noticed that there was very little fouling around the hammer slot and the recoil shield, I suspect because the 209's seal up the nipples when fired, unlike conventional caps which split and fall off allowing back pressure through the conventional nipples.

[Zulch]

Yes Sir

I got there in the end 

How do you like your ROA? I do not own one.

[Necessaryevil]

I love it.

I could do with getting hold of some Pachmayrs for it though ?

[Zulch]

I love it.

I could do with getting hold of some Pachmayrs for it though ?

 
 They are beautiful revolvers. Love to see a full picture of yours if you have time😊👍 maybe one day I’ll have one😃

[Zulch]

Are those grips hard to find by the way? The Pachmayrs for the ROA?

[Necessaryevil]

I don't know, I'll have to research them.