Billy the Kid

[Zulch]

       So, I'm reading all of these different articles and stories from various sources on Henry McCarty aka William H. Bonney otherwise known to all as simply, Billy the Kid. Amazing how much "information" is out there. It seems to me that most things one reads are based on conjecture. Unless one is a historian how could it be otherwise? Anyway, I am certainly no historian. I was merely hoping that this subject may spark some interest and conversation.    From what I have read, it seems that some of Billy's weapons were the Winchester, 1873 rifle, and a . 41 caliber, self-cocking Colt "Thunderer" M1877 model (said to be Colt's first attempt at manufacturing a double-action revolver?) and a Colt Single Action Army, 1876. Another interesting thing that I've read by author George Layman was that he believed that it was quite possible that the Kid was toting a British Webley Bulldog instead of the Colt Thunderer that fateful night. From his book, “A British Bulldog may also have fallen into the hands of William Bonney, aka Billy the Kid, by way of his first employer and mentor, John H. Tunstall. “. I also found this 1934 article from the El Paso Times regarding Pat Garrett's widow and the famous gun that allegedly killed Billy. 
https://www.elpasotimes.com/story/news/history/blogs/tales-from-the-morgue/2011/07/05/1934-pistol-that-killed-billy-the-kid-will-be-returned-to-garretts-widow/31521121/

[Hawg]

WOW Z, another interesting topic with much controversy. First of all that gun in the pic was not Pat Garrets gun. This is Garretts gun as sold by Bonham for $6,030,313. Ya know, If it had been me that bought it I would absolutely HAVE to shoot that puppy.

[Zulch]

Hawg, thanks man. Which picture? Mrs. Garrett with revolver from 1934 or the top picture? 

[Hawg]

The top pic. The one with his wife is the real deal from when she accepted it after the law suit.

[Zulch]

The top pic. The one with his wife is the real deal from when she accepted it after the law suit.

Okay, thanks Hawg  What are your thoughts regarding Billy having the Colt Thunderer versus the British Bulldog? I've seen the only known picture of Billy standing there with a Winchester and a revolver in holster. Many have identified it as a .41 Colt.

[Marshal Will]

This is a good topic. I find it interesting how many historic figures carried an 1877 DA.

[Hawg]

The top pic. The one with his wife is the real deal from when she accepted it after the law suit.

Okay, thanks Hawg  What are your thoughts regarding Billy having the Colt Thunderer versus the British Bulldog? I've seen the only known picture of Billy standing there with a Winchester and a revolver in holster. Many have identified it as a .41 Colt.

I never heard of him having a bulldog but that doesn't mean he didn't have one. He did use a thunderer and the gun he's wearing in the pic has been identified as one. If he did have a bulldog Tunstall would have been the most likely one to have gotten it from since he came from England.

[Hawg]

I figured this topic would take off. Oh well. Most people think Billy was a psychopathic killer. Billy himself supposedly claimed to have killed 21 men. The fact is he can only be directly tied to four. In 1877 in Arizona he hired on as a teamster at the Camp Grant Army Post. He got into it with a civilian blacksmith named Frank “Windy” Cahil. Cahil jumped him and knocked him down and was on top of Billy. Billy pulled his gun and shot him. He was 18. In 1880 in a bar in Fort Sumner New Mexico a bully named Texas Red was bragging about how much tougher he was than Billy. Red tried to shoot Billy in the back but the hammer fell on a fired cartridge and Billy shot him dead. Supposedly Red had swapped guns with a friend and the friend had fired three rounds at a snake. The gun had ivory grips and Billy asked to see it knowing it had been fired. He gave it back so the three fired cartridges would come up next. In 1881 he escaped jail in Lincoln, New Mexico. He had two deputies watching him, James Bell and Bob Olinger. Olinger had gone across the street to the diner and Billy convinced Bell to take him to the outhouse. While in there he slipped out of the cuffs. (he had small hands and wrists) Once back inside the jail he jumped bell and got his gun, Bell wasn't going to let him get away and Billy shot him. Olinger heard the shot and came running and Billy shot him with his own shotgun from the balcony. Those are the only ones that can be directly tied to Billy. He was involved in other shootings and may very well have been responsible for more deaths but he wasn't the only one shooting. So who killed who is anybody's guess.

[Zulch]

Thanks Hawg you covered the known shootings in on post.  thanks for your input and keeping the post active👍👍

[DoubleDeuce1]

We will just have to watch the recent first part of the series.  I’m sure it will be totally accurate….  Hopefully,  it will be as accurate as possible.  I think the second part of that series comes out this Fall.

I heard or read that the shotgun Billy used in his escape,  was loaded with dimes.

[Hawg]

I heard or read that the shotgun Billy used in his escape,  was loaded with dimes.

No, it was a 10 gauge. Besides dimes wouldn't have killed at that range. I doubt if he would have even made a hit with one.

[Miguel Loco]

I rode the Billy The Kid trail on my motorcycle a few years back. Amazing country. Had lunch in Fort Sumner, walked around what was then part of Tunstall's ranch, visited the jail in Lincoln, spent the night in Las Vegas NM.....I have a friend in Ruidoso that took me to the site of an old mill that was the scene of one of Henry McCarty's gun fights. I highly recommend the journey. Some stunning country to see.

[Hawg]

Sounds like it. I wish I had done stuff like that when I was younger but I was always working.

[Zulch]

I rode the Billy The Kid trail on my motorcycle a few years back. Amazing country. Had lunch in Fort Sumner, walked around what was then part of Tunstall's ranch, visited the jail in Lincoln, spent the night in Las Vegas NM.....I have a friend in Ruidoso that took me to the site of an old mill that was the scene of one of Henry McCarty's gun fights. I highly recommend the journey. Some stunning country to see.

Mick, you’ve done some interesting things. I too would love to go that trip. Don’t laugh I’ve never had heard of Las Vegas, NM only Nevada okay okay… go ahead, Laugh. I’ll bet that was surreal being in the jail at Ft. Sumner?

[Hawg]

 I’ve never had heard of Las Vegas, NM only Nevada

You need to get out more Z.